Rotary Nortons at the T.T.

Dell Boy · Post by **Dell Boy** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:57 pm

I am off to the T.T. races on Friday on the "K" reg. Krauser Commander. Does anyone have any news on how the Norton`s are going there? I don`t buy the comics so any news would be appreciated. Also there is a Red Commander resident in the island. Is it in the R.O.C.? Also, what chassis number was the last Commander produced? Derek.

Steve Gee · Post by **Steve Gee** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:25 pm

Hi Derek, it`s not going too well I`m afraid, Saturdays first practice came to an end after 9 miles, due to a rotor bearing failure, missed practice Mon & Tues waiting parts, been out wednesday night but only reached Bradden Bridge(not having been to the island not sure how far into lap that is) before breaking down again. No mention of which engine is being used, there was talk of a 700 cc being built to take advantage of the new capacity rules (1200 cc for twins instead of previous 100cc) have a look at iomtt.com for latest news, enjoy your trip and keep that commander well away from the pits just in case they need more spares ! don`t laugh, i`ve seen it happen, Steve

Dell Boy · Post by **Dell Boy** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:35 pm

Thanks Steve, Braddan bridge is less than 3 miles from the start. It looks like they may not qualify due to lack of practice. Michael Dunlop must be pretty cheesed off because the T.T. is one of the best paydays for the Irish roadracers. Derek.

Malc · Post by **Malc** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:23 am

I heard the second practice came to a halt due to ' lack of sparks'.The engines are still 588as the deal to get the 700cc housings was/has been postponed due to an import problem.There is another Commander which a friend of mine keeps over there, Original not molyd and still running! IoM registered MAN 588.

Steve Gee · Post by **Steve Gee** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:53 pm

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/William- ... 5333571.jp oops, seems like he`s not having the best of weeks, you`d hope that provided the bike is ready and up to speed, the organisers might allow William to race despite lack of practice, he knows his way round well enough, and is flying in the other classes. Then again, apparently those same organisers have banned seven times TT winner Mick Grant form the zero carbon TT race due to lack of practice time, I bet he still knows the course better than many of those racing today.

Steve Gee · Post by **Steve Gee** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:39 pm

Anyone spotted the slight error ! got my Dunlops muddled up

I blame the early morning starts off for a long lie down now !

Richard Negus · Post by **Richard Negus** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:06 pm

Malc wrote:I heard the second practice came to a halt due to ' lack of sparks'..

I recall the same "ignition failure" ploy being used about 30 years ago when a factory Triumph triple threw a rod, which punched the exhaust camshaft and stopped the ignition.I don't think Michael D will be too unhappy ; I haven't looked at last night's times, but on Tuesday, he was fastest in the 600's and well up in the 1000's. I don't suppose he can change brands for the Senior ??R.

Dell Boy · Post by **Dell Boy** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:42 pm

Hello Malc, I have a manx registered red krauser commander MAN 588N. Do you know what chassis no. the 1st. & last Commanders were? Derek.

Malc · Post by **Malc** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:15 am

Hello Derek,I only have details of chassis numbers of all the Derbyshire bikes. This is because I was the only bike mechanic and would often be working on many bikes each day with interuptions for example, of fitting tyres, bulbs or breakdowns. It was easier to keep a note of each job in the book and work out the time booked on each bike at the end of the day so as the time sheets and job cards matched.I consequently have a book of useless information about all the work done from the days of BMW R 75/80 through to all the Nortons ( of which Derbyshire was the only force to over completely to) through to the K series BMWs and all the others that ranged from Honda CG125s throught to other japanese models that were used for covert operations.Looking back through the book now, its easier to compare the models, each with their own problems. The best Nortons were the later IP2s but, if only we had molyd Commander engines, then things may have been different.We did have one molyd engine on trial in the instructors bike with Nortons telling me to ensure that that bike went back to the factory ( for any trivial reason whatsoever) before it went for sale!RgdsMalc

Richard Negus · Post by **Richard Negus** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:27 am

Reading the TT Forum this morning, it appears that Team Unprepared have withdrawn Michael's Norton entry ; he will use his R1 in the Senior.I'm both disappointed and frustrated that probably the last rotary Norton entry in the TT should turn out to be less of a rocket and more a damp squib.Body language of Brian and Tony in the videos says it all really. Shame.R.

Post by **kanonkopdrinker** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:42 pm

Derek, According to my records, 4001 is the first Commander (at least numerically) I do know 'Classic' purchasers were given a choice of frame numbers - so they're not necessarily the order in which they were built) while 4309 seems to be the final one - although I believe Graham might have a Commander frame carrying number No.4310.DC

Interpol2471 · Post by **Interpol2471** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:54 am

Richard I agree what a shame they could not even get a lap out of the old girl but where are you viewing the videos? I hope it's not the last Rotary visit to the island maybe next year

Richard Negus · Post by **Richard Negus** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:48 pm

Hi Paul,See the videos on the TT Forum ( http://www.iomtt.co.uk ) - but by now you'll probably have to search for them. Also try youtube. If I was a five year old, I'd add a link - but I'm not so you'll have to find it yourself !There was also a short piece in one of the ITV4 programmes earlier in the week.What I find particularly frustrating is that there is so much previous history and experience of racing Norton rotaries and I was expecting so much better from a factory race team.Rgds,R.

Interpol2471 · Post by **Interpol2471** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:19 am

I am sure they will be happy to discuss the failure at the Norton day

Steve Gee · Post by **Steve Gee** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:36 pm

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport ... e-testing/ Seems like the fat lady hasn`t sung yet ! though I fear she`s about to

Interpol2471 · Post by **Interpol2471** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:47 am

Yes that was also on the ITV4 show I have just watched, lets all start praying at bedtime

Stuart Garner and young Dunlop were looking positive and upbeat that they maybe ok and the bike just sounded fantastic. The worst thing is I rejected the offer of a day at the TT to watch the Electric bikes due to work only to realise that the Senior was straight after.... DOOH

Interpol2471 · Post by **Interpol2471** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:39 pm

The Norton is running at it's best yet and can still now qualify on Wedneday practice....

Even if I was stupid enough not to take up the chance of watching it..

Derek Nicol · Post by **Derek Nicol** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:11 am

Watched the final part of ITV4s 100 Greatest TT moments last night and guess what came in at number one... yep, Hislop Abus Norton vs Fogarty Loctite Yamaha - 1992 Senior race.Pity the Norton couldnt compete this year. Interesting though that Dunlop said 'we need to get the bike right for next year, theres no point coming here unless youve got 200 horsepower', even if the bike had been reliable he didnt think it was quick enough. How things have changed since 1992.

Richard Negus · Post by **Richard Negus** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:03 am

I'm surprised how little things really have changed over the years ; riders fall off, sometimes seriously hurt or killed, spectators do stupid things, chains break .... but it is still the most exciting road race in the world.If (IF!) Hislop & the Abus Norton results were transposed into this year's finishers, then they would have been 11th, only 6 minutes behind Plater after almost two hours racing - and that with something like 60bhp less than the opposition.But this years 'factory' performance was surely the worst ever in the history of Norton.

R.

Interpol2471 · Post by **Interpol2471** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:39 am

I dont think it was their fault that the last practice was cancelled due to the sidecar accident but to leave it that late to try and get a lap in was of an oversight me thinks. How you can only manage 13 miles in a week of practice during the sunniest weather ever in the IOM is pretty poor I have to agree Richard. I guess you will ask the Factory boys next Friday why they did not take the working race bike to the island to start with

Maybe they could have used my IP2 that does miles during the week.

Richard Negus · Post by **Richard Negus** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:30 pm

Interpol2471 wrote:why they did not take the working race bike to the island to start with Maybe they could have used my IP2 that does miles during the week.

What working race bike ?? They don't seem to have one ! The Museum NRV didn't work at Mallory last year and this one didn't work at the TT either. A piffling fan system for rotor cooling then and now an ejector that (I guess) doesn't work ; master cylinder cap not secured ? ; a reality check please ! Makes me angry that so little value is attacehd to the name ; James Lansdowne would turn in his grave, i'm sure, to hear that his name was being treated in such a cavalier fashion. I am so absolutely appalled that Norton Racing should have appeared in the Island when so obviously unprepared.I didn't go to Zandvoort, Spa,Barcelona, and Thruxton in 1973,Zandvoort, Barcelona, Spa and Thruxton in '74 and Spa & Thruxton in '75 on the basis of 'we'll muddle through somehow'; before you win, you have to finish ; before you finish, you have to start.I've been proud to say that I was a Norton employee and contributed to the engineering of the Commandos and the rotaries ; that the current owner of the trademark should seem to make such a pig's ear of it in such a short time is beyond my understanding.R.In vino, veritas.

Dell Boy · Post by **Dell Boy** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:16 pm

Norton unable to race due to lack of practice BUT Michael Dunlop did a parade lap on Friday & he was flying!! They put a travelling marshall in front of him & he was climbing all over his backwheel coming out of Kirkmichael & the marshall`s don`t hang about. It was tragic it did not get out & race because there was very little technical variety in the machines entered. It was a parade of inline 4 cylinder japanese bikes that all sound the same. I ran low on oil but the factory team gave me a litre which kept me going. Good old Royal Mail delivered to me 4.5l. sent from home in 24 hours & they want to privatise it to make it so called better!!! It`s fine as far as I am concerned. Derek.

whiffling clara · Post by **whiffling clara** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:27 pm

Certainly a very poor effort from the new owners of the trademark. If it was a "rotor bearing failure" in the practice on Monday then why not take the second bike out on Tuesday and Wednesday. "Cap came off the Front brake master cylinder" or was it "Electrical problems" on Thursday then why not take out the other bike on Friday. All this makes me think the bike had major problems and was the second bike really complete and working ? I cannot imagine why the bikes hadn't been properly tested. They've been building them for 15 months and only managed half a race at a club meeting and 13 miles at the IOM. Non of this was bad luck. It was all bad preparation.The Norton Non Race Team would certainly have made a better showing had they used the IP2 of Interpol 2471. They would at least have got in some full laps.Their only full lap was a parade lap behind a Travelling Marshal - not much of an an acheivement for a factory race team.

Interpol2471 · Post by **Interpol2471** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:42 am

You haven't seen my IP2 then Whiffling

Richard Negus · Post by **Richard Negus** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:01 pm

Dell Boy wrote:Norton unable to race due to lack of practice .

I don't think so ! They weren't allowed to race because they didn't complete a single lap during any of the four authorised pratice sessions and DIDN'T QUALIFY . To me, that says that neither of the two bikes was ready to race. Michael demonstrated very ably that he was race-ready and, significantly, decided mid-week that his R1 was a better bet for finishing the Senior.

Dell Boy wrote:Good old Royal Mail delivered to me 4.5l. sent from home in 24 hours .

I bet they wouldn't have been as keen if they'd known there was a highly flammable substance in the box !However, having said that, I have always found RM very efficient at delivering letters and urgent small packagesR.

whiffling clara · Post by **whiffling clara** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:47 pm

I see that Norton Racing have a competion on their website for the best photo of Robert Dunlop on the racer at the TT. Not many people with photo's I think. The first prize is a (Non) Race Team jacket.I hear that second prize is 2 jackets and third prize is the an NRV588.

Derek Nicol · Post by **Derek Nicol** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:29 pm

I spoke to Brian Crighton on Saturday morning at Donington and he confirmed that he is currently building a 700cc rotary using wider rotors than the 588. The aim is 200bhp.He also said that as far as he is concerned there will be a road version, even if its only a run of x200. This contradicted their ex-Triumph man (dont know his name) who said any Rotary produced will be a limited run of track day bikes, not road bikes.I also asked 'ex-Triumph man' about the four cylinder rumour, he said.. 'nothing on the drawing board'

Interpol2471 · Post by **Interpol2471** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:33 am

The ex Triumph man is Simon and he told me no Rotary road bike and he did say that they were looking at a four .. who do you believe lol

Derek Nicol · Post by **Derek Nicol** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:59 pm

Interpol2471 wrote:The ex Triumph man is Simon and he told me no Rotary road bike and he did say that they were looking at a four .. who do you believe lol

Theyre not all singing from the same song sheet yet

Need a bit more schooling!

Rotary Owners' Club

Rotary Nortons at the T.T.

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