Idemitsu oil for Wankel engines

[gbcastro]

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Hi Guys, anyone uses this oil in Commander or RE5 ?Any info about this?Is this suitable?Goncalo

[gbcastro]

Found this too...

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[johnbirchjar]

Is there a Mazda RX8 owner in the club? or do's any club member know someone who do's?and do they use this oil?if not this oil then what one? J.B.

[Anthony Duffield]

Castrol Tection DD 40 and Shell Rotella DD + 40I did use Rotella in my Commander until I ran out then switched to Castrol Tection DD 40, luckily we have some Detroit Diesel generator engines type 8V 92 so have access to as much as I need within reason, before switching I compared the data sheets and was satisfied that Rotella and Tection was very similar.I appreciate that the type of oil we use in our rotaries is critical and using an oil that is not commonly used provides a risk. I have used the Tection all of 2015 clocking up some serious miles, the engine seems to be OK so hopefully it will remain so.Tony

[gbcastro]

Found this interesting article in Mazda forum !"Using Synthetic Oils in Rotary Engines"This has got to be one of the most frequently asked questions ever!Here is our answer:The Rotary engine has an oil injection system that injects small amounts of oil into either the intake tract, carb, or rotor housing (depending on year/model). This is needed to lubricate the various internal seals and surfaces.The injected oil MUST BURN, and must burn clean. The root answer to the question is that not ALL synthetic oils burn, and not ALL of them burn clean. (Idemitsu Rotary Engine Oil is the only known exception - see below)The ones that do not burn accumulate until they foul the spark plugs.The ones that do not burn clean can leave residues of various substances (like ash? plastic? non-organic sand?) that accumulate until the spark plugs foul, or a seal sticks -- could be apex seal, side seal, corner seal, or oil control ring. The normal consequence of a stuck seal is an engine tear down.In the many years we have been involved in rotary engines, we have NEVER had a problem with GOOD petroleum based oils. They work fine! They are less expensive than synthetics. (We use Castrol 20-50 GTX). They burn clean, etc. etc.The problem with answering the original question is that it is NOT a simple yes or no. We DO simplify it to a "NO", but that is because we do NOT know whether the specific brand of synthetic the customer has in mind will work. AND, if it does not work, how long will it be before the damage shows up, and how bad will the damage be? Maybe it will take 10,000 miles, maybe 50,000 miles?? Maybe the engine will fail due to something unrelated to the oil, and there won't be enough left to determine that there was damage from the oil.WE are not willing to take that gamble, are you ?Then, take a minute to think of WHY you want to use a synthetic. If a rotary engine (properly maintained, oil changes at 3K intervals, etc.) can still be running fine at over 200,000 miles, the engine does not need any more cooling, the gas milage will not be any better, etc. etc. WHY do you want to spend more $$ and gamble on engine and/or spark plug damage?We are not chemists, and we do not have the time, $$'s, nor inclination to do 100K mile tests of various synthetics in rotary engines.The only exception to the above answer is with Idemitsu Synthetic Rotary Engine Oil. Idemitsu has been making synthetic oil specifically for the rotary engine for decades. They have only recently come to the US and we are happy to be able to sell it. We've known about it since the beginning, but until recently, it's only been available in Japan. Click here to go to our oil page.We DO use Neo synthetic in the transmissions and rear ends with great results.Anyway - that is the MAZDATRIX version of the synthetic question.

[holger999]

Hello there,in Germany, I can no longer get Rotella DD40 + 20 liters of Shell.they want to sell only 209 liters. my supplies are running low.Can anybody help? where can i get the 20 liters of Shell?greetingHolger

[Joe]

Hello Holger, Rotella DD40 hasn't been available for years in England in 20 Litres drums. We are lucky that the Rotary Owners Club can supply it by the Litre from two locations accross the country but that's not a lot of help to you. The last time I found stocks in smaller quantities (20 Ltrs) was in France by carrying out an Internet search but that was at least a year ago now so it may also have dried up.If you have any luck please post hear.Regards, Joe.

[Joe]

Hello Goncalo,Be carefull experimenting with diferent oils for rotary engines as Commander engines and all Rotary Norton engines for that matter are different to NSU, Mazda and Suzuki RE 5.NSU, Mazda and Suzuki are similar, these are all "Oil Cooled Rotary" engines "OCR" as in Van Veen OCR and have an oil sump and oil filter so lubricate the internal parts differently, multi grade oils are OK here. Castrol GTX 20w 50 was the standard oil recomended by Suzuki and is still available from their classic range but Norton and Sachs Rotary engines are Air Cooled Rotary engines and do not have a sump or oil filter and therefore lubricate in another way via an Air/Oil mist. As your artical suggests the oil is burnt and must be of a specific type to cope with the high temperatures of the Wankel engine. Norton's I beleive had 1000'c at the exhaust port on the test bed so run extreamly hot. Personaly I dont think it is worth the risk wrecking an engine expecially as both of these are now no longer manufactured. DD40 is an excellent oil which I've used since 1989 in my first Rotary Norton and I've now covered over 350,000 miles collcetively on all of my Nortons. One alone has 195,000 miles and always run on Shell Rotella. For engines which stand idle more than they're ridden I'm told Silkolene in far superoir for this. Regards, Joe.

[holger999]

hello Joe,maybe you have the adress from France Dealer?best regardsHolger

[kanonkopdrinker]

Hello HolgerHave you been in touch with Clemens up in Luebeck?Or Heiner or Heinz of the Wankel IG?One of them might be able to help.David

[holger999]

hello David,thank you. I have write to hercules ig Heinz...we will se.maybe you have emailadress from Clemens ?and also I make contact with Shell Hamburg...regardsHolger

[holger999]

hello David,thank you for the tip with Heinz...now we make waiting-list...togteher...so I can wait for 40 liter... best regardsHolger

[johnbirchjar]

Looks like I'll keep on using Rotella then ,J.B.

[holger999]

"news from germany "I have found a dealer that fills in 25 liter cans and sends to meif someone needs information, please PMthanks for all informationregardsHolger

[gbcastro]

Thanks for the advice Joe, your extensive experience and mileage are welcome. Startright though told me to use Silkolene, a bit divided now...

[Richard Negus]

Goncalo,I fully support what Joe has said. Mineral oils, such as DD40, are appropriate for Norton rotaries that are used regularly and cover high mileages.Those who do short journeys and infrequent long distances, myself included, have better engine protection using a synthetic such as Classic 2T.