brembo brakes and spondon frame wanted

[Wayne]

Hi AllWanted one pair of gold brembo 4 pot calipers (1 pin to retain pads) to suit 320mm disks mounting holes 40mm, units of ducati, laverda ect as well as nortons will do. also wanted 2 90's white power general caliper mount 43mm fork botoms for racing forks, these are used to fit the ap calipers.Also i am looking for a spondon beam frame or p55 frame to house the race engine if any one knows of one. I have obtained some pvm wheels and apart from calipers have a compleat front end. If any one has an unfinished spondon framed norton project for sale ect i may purchace the lot if you want, or do a deal for one of my f1 sports (only projets with the correct frame would be considerd for px)Regards Wayne

[andy588tt]

Hi WayneI know way back during the 80s a very talented panel beater called Don Woodward and his Son in Louth Lincs made the fuel tanks for Nortons and one offs in ally and mild steel He might have passed away now but his Son might help you with a frame its worth a try Ive not got his phone number but if you pm Richard N he might help, Dons wife makes a wicked cup of tea while Don chats about his F1 and tails about his dealings with the Rotary race bikes and repairing old historic cars from around the world.Good luck with the project you dont know what people have got in the shed if you dont askRide SafeAndy

[Richard Negus]

Andy is correct about Don and Alan's amazing abilities in aluminium fabrication.In 1974, Don made me a one-off tank for my Egli-Laverda endurance racer, he made all the alloy Commander tanks, and he and Alan made all the F1 and F1 Sport tanks.In one of my visits in about 1988, there was an almost-complete BRM V16 for which he was making the bodywork and fuel/oil tanks. He said the only original part was one cylinder head - everthing else was newly-made for someone with a very deep pocket.Don has passed away, I believe that Alan continues the business, but their original premises near Bourne is now a private house.

[Wayne]

Hi Richard and AndyGreat minds think alike? jut been talking to Tony Haywood about all Nrs Harris frames are now accounted for, and as the frame is a fabrication one could be made, however a sample frame or drawings would be required, fibre glass castings could be taken of an original frame to make patterns. The only way I think replica frames will be made is if the museum damages one of there nrs bikes, and could be why its nearly always the Spondon framed bikes that get an outing, I have not seen a nrs getting the wheelie after wheelie treatment.Richards hit on the second valid point, £, projects like this can easily run away if allowed and if money is no object any thing is possible, unfortunately my pockets are shallow and why I have offered the possibility of part exchange one of my F1 sports for the correct project bike.I will wait to see what if anything turns up, the Spondon beam frame could be for other makes as well as Norton Regards Wayne

[Nortonash]

Wayne, I could be willing to have moulds made of my frame when back in the UK. It would be a project worth pursuing. I would have thought there would have been more swinging arms made than frames ? There could be one floating around.

[Wayne]

Hi AshThanks for the offer, i will over the next year try to find a fabricator who can undertake such work, i already know some one who can make moulds used in dressing aluminium sheet. Once frames are avalable again i bet a hislop replica or two will appear Regards Wayne

[Richard Negus]

Unless some spoilsport comes along and says "'Ere, you can't do that without my permission; I own the design copyright ........."

[rustynuts]

as the frame is a fabrication one could be made, however a sample frame or drawings would be required, fibre glass castings could be taken of an original frame to make patterns.

Have you considered going the modern route and having a 3D scan taken of a frame. It would be much quicker and more accurate than taking mouldings. A colleauge of mine was recently looking into this technique in order to reverse engineer a large fan impeller.

[Interpol2471]

First trend I have ever started

[rustynuts]

Sorry, I couldn't resist any longer

[Malc]

The Harris frames, I could be wrong but I think the Harris frames are made out of pressings and a 'former' would have to be made first to obtain the correct section shape before being welded.Its not just the Harris frames that now cannot be replicated, the RC588 frame was recently back at Spondon and I was told that it also could not be replicated as the double section alloy is not available, so dont let anyone fall off it and bend it!It seems that Spondon cannot replicate the frames for the new 961 Commando either even though MCN not only printed but also stated in a video that they were made there. I suppose it was a bit like the stupid bystander comments but I was the quiet bystander saying nothing. A purchaser or prospective purchaser wanted to see the frame for his new motorcycle being made. Spondon were trying to make it clear to him that they have had nothing to do with the design or production of these frames but the purchaser was getting a little irate as he thought he was being fobbed off by Spondon as MCN and other mags could not have this wrong! He was convinced he was getting a bike with a Spondon frame.Malc

[Nortonash]

Hi Malc, hows things with you ? You probably don't remember me.It would be possible for a good fabricator to reproduce one of the Harris frames but it wouldn't be easy. How hard would it be to produce a former to make the sides sections of the frame ?

[andy588tt]

Hi AllWanted one pair of gold brembo 4 pot calipers (1 pin to retain pads) to suit 320mm disks mounting holes 40mm, units of ducati, laverda ect as well as nortons will do. also wanted 2 90's white power general caliper mount 43mm fork botoms for racing forks, these are used to fit the ap calipers.Also i am looking for a spondon beam frame or p55 frame to house the race engine if any one knows of one. I have obtained some pvm wheels and apart from calipers have a compleat front end. If any one has an unfinished spondon framed norton project for sale ect i may purchace the lot if you want, or do a deal for one of my f1 sports (only projets with the correct frame would be considerd for px)Regards Wayne

Hi WayneWith ref to the frame and Don Woodward, It was sad that Richard tells of Dons pasting away, His Son is like his father with Ally, I would ask for his advice, The only other lead I might have is aMr Giovanni Cabassi I got to know him at the Isle of Mann when Marshalling at Quarter Bridge Hes a great Guy He loves his bikes He has a NRS 588 his English is very good his email address is http://www.giovannicabassi@fastwebnet.it The Bike is in Italy but you can only ask and being a fellow biker he might be more willing to help with your frame and other questions about these racing bikes more then the Museum that have the rest in Birmingham. Giovannis bike is as was in 1991-92. and not even fired up ! Its worth a try.Ride safeAndy

[Malc]

Hi Ashley,Of course I can remember you, its only about 18 years and my dementia is not that bad yet, now where did I put that rotary thingy, anyway good to hear you are coming back to sort this country out cuz that David Cameron you know, are they one and the same person, I mean, you never see them together do you, never used to be like this when I was younger, petrol at £1.30 a litre ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz------Malc

[Wayne]

Hi allHarris frame- this was made from pressed sections as malc suggests the recessed panels are for strength, the casting method can be used to make patterns for the formers. The pressed panel sections and underside welds of Ashes frame indicate to me the aluminium is not that thick. I can understand why the md of Spondon refused to weld the Harris frames for Norton (see Sealeys book for the full tail or Richard may wish to expand).Modern methods can be employed as suggested, however for a couple of frames costs may be prohibitive. Richard makes a valid point about copyright, it would be advisable to contact Harris, Maxton and NML, Harris fail to respond, A/N told me the race shop was separate business and they hold no drawings or technical knowledge on Nrs bikes, I need to ask ask Jo if he owns any of the Nrs rights. Maxton I have yet to contact.I doubt the number of frames that would be produced via members of the Roc would exceed 4, certainly not a commercial exercise, however Richard may know who owns the rights to the frame and the rest. In any case the original press tools were destroyed or lost by Harris (I wonder if they got permission as they could have been classed as Nrs property). Once we get in to the classic racing period things may change Harris make period frames ect that complies with Crmc rules, so do Spondon. But which Norton rotary race bike could be built commercially Rc/Rcw gearbox limiting factor, f1 based bike, engines will be the limiting factor. Malc’s point on the Rc frame, the Rcw and F1 are all of a similar construction, I thought one piece extruded aluminium box section the later Duckhams Norton Spondon’s maybe different again. It maybe worth any one who knows a contact at Spondon clarifying these points for a race and road bikes, we may end up riding a little diferantly. Regards WayneThanks for the contact Andy, I am looking in to building something along the lines of an f1r until a race Spondon or Harris frame can be obtained/manufactured. At this moment I will introduce my self to Giovanni he may be able to help me and Ash. One thing at least if there’s a another fire at the NMM not all the race bikes are there.

[wust588]

Yes Don Woodward was a brilliant and thoroughly nice bloke to know.I got to know Don in the late 80's during my time at Shenstone. He certainly did a lot of work for Norton, including the original "Aurora" ( where did that name come from? ) tanks of the late 70's rotaries, Classic , FI , P52/3 and the lovely "waisted" Interpol steel tanks. Years ago I asked him to remove the filler neck from a donor FJ1200 tank and add it (somehow) to one of my IP2 tanks. An outstanding job he made of it too.Whenever I visited him he always was in the middle of a complex commision on some exotic car or other, but was always interested in the bike jobs.Don, you are sorely missed.

[Malc]

Hi Wayne,Regarding the RC, RCW and F1 frames, I was talking to Spondon aboout this. Their position on this is that they think all but the most very seriously damaged frames would be repairable.The material to reproduce the side beams and sub-frames is not avaialble. The sub frames are now manufactured in a slightly different material and to a better specification. The side rails could also be reproduced in their triple section but obviously this is different to their original specification.Not all doom and gloom though because of their impressive ability to repair. One damaged F1 frame had the existing steering head machined off, a new one made, re-jigged and re-welded. They also still have new castings for the swinging arm pivots and various brackets for the F1.The swinging arm on the RC588 was found to be bent around the wheel spindle sections and I had visions of having to have a new swinging arm manufactured. Their answer was to cut off these sections, re-jig and weld. This brought the swinging arm back to specification without any visible signs of the repair.So, no need to stop using them as hard as intended.Malc

[Wayne]

Hi allI have purchased a Harris beam frame which the main beams are almost identical and the same dimensions, the swinging arm area is wrong and would need to be changed. I still need the break stuffMaxton have no issue with me modifying the frame to nrs spec they even contacted B Symonds to so see if he new of any issues, he did not. Maxton cannot support any modifications to the frame, however they will modify the forks and shock as per the original nrs. They do think they still hold the frame drawings, however due to there workload cannot locate them or provide any assistance in this area, now or in the perceived futureI cannot speak Highly enough of Mary Williams for her assistance and thank Maxton for there helpMy black f1 sport is no longer avalable for a part ex deal i will now keep itRegards Wayne