UAV Engines

[gripper]

I wonder if NML is oprating a monopoly on engine spares. Because the rotary spares are in the process of being moved to Hungerford, NML didn't have stock of a couple of rotor circlips. I phoned UAV engines, when the nice lady asked me what was the company I worked for and I replied that I was JUST a private owner. she said that they would probably not be able to supply the part, "please hold" 5 minute wait, line goes dead.

[Richard Negus]

I wonder if NML is oprating a monopoly on engine spares. Because the rotary spares are in the process of being moved to Hungerford, NML didn't have stock of a couple of rotor circlips. I phoned UAV engines, when the nice lady asked me what was the company I worked for and I replied that I was JUST a private owner. she said that they would probably not be able to supply the part, "please hold" 5 minute wait, line goes dead.

Hi Dave,UAV will not deal with anyone but their established trade customers, they are after all a high security military orientated company and have no facility for sales to private customers. NML are only able to buy parts because of the 'friend' factor, must buy in quantity, and are not allowed credit terms.As an employee of Andover Norton, Peter's instruction is that Commando business always comes first. He not only has to arrange move of the rotary parts to Hungerford, he also has to arrange move of the remainder material to his new address.Graham at Startright must surely be able to supply two new circlips.If Graham hasn't got any, then we're all in the poo until rotary business is back to normal - unless someone out there has got a few new ones and is willing to sell.R.

[Interpol2471]

Tell me the part number you are after and I will have a look in my boxes.RegardsPaul

[ZFD]

Sorry to hear about the current spares situation! But I am confident that in the long run the rotary parts supply will improve. Getting the stuff to Hungerford to a team that does nothing but organize stores and ship parts every day must be better than Pete being on constant overload, organizing Commando parts supply plus taking phone calls/mails from rotary owners, then going through the stores, packing and shipping stuff plus communicating everything to the accounts lady at Hungerford for the invoices to be raised. When everything has been moved and sorted Andover Norton will have an idea what is there, and, more importantly, what isn't, and can start filling the gaps systematically. The idea is to get rotary spares fill rate on a comparable level to Commando spares, with constant purchases of new material and remanufacture of items BEFORE they run out. Like those clips.

[johnbirchjar]

Am I missing something? If we can only get rotary spares from Hungerford and they will not sell to the public at large how, can we buy them? When I spoke to Peter at NML earlier today he seemed to think that if one knew the part No; to tell Hungerford and they would dispatch said part forthwith,("left hand & right syndrome?") hopefully the two will come together before too long,regards,J.B.

[gripper]

It's UAV Engines that cannot sell to the public, not NML. Thanks for the background information Richard. I was just trying to speed up my rebuild. The parts I need Paul are two rotor circlips My parts list shows Pt No 50-0153 ( the bag I got from NML has part Number 55-0153 on it?) I didn't think trying to get two circlips out of UAV would be a threat to national security, the details of their products are on their website and I have signed the official secrets act I think these circlips must be made of unobtainium cause they're about £9 each.

[Wayne]

Hi all I have just simultaneously ordered spares for my F1, F1 sport and mk1 commando from Andover, the rotary parts lists were compiled by NML and sent to Andover, as we are now in the 21th century and we can now buy our parts over the phone. I suspect the days are gone when we received the parts and then we sent a check by return of post.Lets see how long they take, they were out of stock on a few of the commando parts, one of the F1 parts has to be made,However last week I did purchase some mk1 commando tank badges of Andover origin , unfortunately they only represent the originals and are not an exact replica, they are not concaved enough. If you know what they should look like they look wrong, but are better than nothing.This is the first time I have been disappointed with any Andover or genuine Norton part. I hope this is not a sign of things to come, any parts must be as original (as they always were) or state otherwise.Regards Wayne

[ZFD]

Sorry to hear you were disappointed with these badges. I have yet to find any that are 100% as original, and these are by far the best reproductions I have come across. The demand for them is minimal- only the very early Commandos had them-, so Andover Norton buys them in. With the small numbers sold every year it just doesn't pay to lay down tooling for this obscure item. And, yes, my '68 Fastback has them, too- the originals were gone, as usual.

[Wayne]

As I said the Andover badges are better than nothing, but I have picked a set of mk1 badges up, probably re-imported from America, They are a lot closer match if not original, the pressed in writing gives a 3 d effect. However back to my point, if its not economical to make parts for a commando be it mk1, where will that leave F1, F1 sport and classic owners who wish to keep their bike original ,with production runs of less than 200 made this may become hard task. Zfd, Do Andover intend to restock unavailable rotary items for example a complete set of F1 carburettorsRegard Wayne

[ZFD]

if its not economical to make parts for a commando be it mk1, where will that leave F1, F1 sport and classic owners who wish to keep their bike original ,with production runs of less than 200 made this may become hard task. Zfd, Do Andover intend to restock unavailable rotary items for example a complete set of F1 carburettorsRegard Wayne

Wayne,Andover Norton is not a registered charity, but lives out there in the nasty world where wages, insurances, and rents have to be paid, and the owner expects a return on his considerable investment. The idea is to gradually increase the availability of parts for all Nortons, be it Featherbeds, Commandos or rotaries; but a) this has to be funded by running income and b) it has to be financially viable. If there is call for F1 carbs, and these can be supplied at a price the F1 owner is happy to pay, fine; if the price is prohibitively high, taking Andovers purchase price plus the modifications that have to be carried out on the Mikuni carbs to make them "sort of work" on the F1, plus average shelf life, plus return on investment into account, Andover simply can't do it. If, say (ballpark figure, I have no idea of today's cost) the carbs cost Andover 800 Pounds to buy and get into F1 condition, and F1 owners only want to pay say 500 Pounds maximum there is no point in stocking them. Another problem is the stock of old spares in other hands that makes it hard to assess what is needed; Andover does not want to be caught out investing big sums of money in a certain item and then find out some ex-works or ex-Police stock is out there at a price the item can't even be made for today. When Norton Motors Ltd aquired the stock of the Norton Owners Club one item, which had just been remanufactured at considerable cost, turned up in a quantity that will satisfy the demand of the next 200 years! Concentrating everything in one place, whilst having the obvious disadvantage of constituting a monopoly, makes things more viable to reproduce, and the risk of reproduction easier to calculate. Another possibility was for the various official and unofficial sources to build a database of who holds what. Whilst this database will soon be on the net as far as Andover is concerned, I doubt some the other protagonists want to do likewise, and some, especially the "unofficial sources", may not be organized enough to do it.After Norton Motors Ltd ("NML") was not sold, and the decision was made that Andover integrates the rotary stock in its portfolio, Andover is as happy to buy job lots of spares as NML was, and financially better equipped to invest in spares reproduction. However, there are spares that are going to be sold never to be reproduced, either because the tooling was lost- like many casting tools- in the "Canadian era", or because reproduction in small quantities is simply uneconomical- silencers for Interpol through Commander come to mind.It is always easy to critizise spares backup, pointing out gaps in the NML/Andover product portfolio, but let's face it- who would have thought, after Norton's implosion in 1993, that nearly twenty years on one can still buy spares for Norton rotary motorcycles of which the total production (including prototypes and works racers!) is just above 1.000 units, divided into 3 major model ranges, from an economically sound and fully organized source?However, whilst the management consists of enthusiastic motorcyclists, and the owner owns, rides, and loves rotaries, it is a firm that must calculate every part that is up for reproduction and ask the basic commercial questions- a) Is there sufficient demand for it to b) be made at a price that allows the necessary markup to make the remanufacture a financially viable proposition.

[gripper]

Richards estimate is that there are about 250 rotaries still "on the road". I think that the owners are lucky to have a company prepared to spend time and money to supply these few owners. Never, in the field of rotary motorcycles, has so much been owed by so few, to even fewer. It will take a very rich person to stand the remanufacture of major engine components. I can't see it happening.

[johnbirchjar]

Come on guys!!think possative!! there are some realy talented engineers out there who with a pattern can make allmost anything,and so long as we can ride our rotaries who cares if they are "modified", and hand on heart, who rides a rotary that is "as it left the factory" not many I bet,mine certainly is'nt, I'm always "looking to improve things"J.B.

[Wayne]

Hi ZFDHave I not just placed a very sizable order for a private individual, with your selves. I never mentioned costs at all in this post and you mentioned if there was limited demand it would not be viable for NML/AN re manufacture parts, I gave carburettors as an example because I bought the last complete (almost) set from NML, graham had to supply a couple of parts nml could not supply.The answered I expected to my post was, Yes we can but it will not be cheap, £???.??OrDue to suppliers minimum orders it would be uneconomic to purchase the required amountOrDue to expected demand it would be not financially viable due to the modifications requiredWhat I was getting at was, what current stock do you hold, that is low in quantity and you no you will not be re stocking, please let us know, I and others may wish to purchase some of the said items for my/their own stock.In response to a couple of the other posts, A/N core business since in inception was supplying genuine commando parts to keep bikes original, even more so since the commando became eligible for concourse entries in the classic fraternity. I personally like to keep one bike original and one for messing with, so can understand the so what if its not original person or the person who wants every nut and bolt as original.I have quite a bit of experience in remaking Mk1 parts or re-maching existing damaged parts, as engineering companies are not interested in one offs, I learnt to screw cut in the lathe by remaking my top gearbox bolt 26tpi complete with flats mild in to stop the bolt turning when fitted, I am sure ZFD along with Richard will remember in 1985 these bolts were like hens teeth, along with 2 to 1 smiths rev counter g/box and speedo drives, the pattern ones dropped to bits. I have reclaimed 6 smiths rev g/box with damaged threads by building up with new metal, turning true on a special jig then screw cutting the thread back on.By for nowWayneI

[rogerdodger]

Well I have always dealt with NML and found them to be - well words cannot explain, getting the top people in the country dare I say 'world' to work on and put your motorcycle back on the road with TLC is simply very humbling. To see the end of NML is like having an arm amputated, devastating.Andover not impressed I ordered through NML as they did not have any (Norton F1 decals) some 3 months ago and I still haven't received them. Not even a phone call to say why they haven't sent them. I certainly will not be dealing with this shower again, and when I buy a Commando Norvil will get my business.Second rate outfit

[Dell Boy]

Hmmm, Norvil, can`t say I have ever had any good experiences with them whereas Andover Norton, when I was holed up in Germany, sent me a set of pistons & gasket set for my Dommie toot sweet. Commando`s, now they are second rate, second worst bike after the Jubbly Nortons ever put there name on. I`ve had eight of the bloody things but I`m a slow learner. Fortunately the Rotaries came along & saved me. Derek.

[rotarian]

You will be sorry if you use Norvil, believe me! Not only the prices, but also the service. NOC members of long standing will remember! Stick with Andover Norton, ask for Nick, knowledgable, helpful, and a nice bloke.

[graham]

Hello Gripper,No, there is no monopoly on engine spares. Let me know if there's anything you need I have plenty of good used circlips that are fit for re-use. I don't have any new ones at the moment because I usually re-use the old ones so long as the rotor bearing hasn't caused any damage and there are no signs of overheating. Some aero engines have the circlip groove pin punched to stop the circlip escaping. I've not found it necessary for road engines but I do remember that Brian Crighton saw this as a constant problem on race engines, to the point of even carefully polishing the circlip where it touches the bearing to reduce friction. Certainly if a rotor bearing needle escapes into a stat gear it's curtains for the whole engine! Our engines produce just over half the power of the race engines so it's not really a concern. I'll list some good used circlips on my online shop at £2 apiece and look into putting a stock of new ones in.http://www.startright.co.uk/index.php?m ... ath=324_55My view of the spares situation is different from that at Norton Motors: Any money the sale of spares brings in is ploughed straight back in to more spares in the hope that I can keep my own bikes on the road for the rest of my life. Because I usually order in bulk, I can do the same for other people too.Graham.

[Interpol2471]

Hi I had a look and I do not have any new circlips only used and at Grahams usual bargain price to supply I would grab them from him Good 'OLD' Graham

[gripper]

Thanks gents, Richard advised to use new circlips and as the cost of my rebuild so far is nerly £1100 I was keen to use new. I have two new clips and will use them in the outer side of the rotors and pick the best of the old ones to go in the centre. There are some slight witness marks on the old clips where the old cage has rubbed. I plan to have that facing away from the new bearings. I will smooth out the inner face as well as I notice that the punched holes for the circlip pliers are burred on the new clips.

[Wayne]

Hi allThe commando spares arrived promptly from AN and all were as expected as original; and very good quality, rotary stuff still on order, this dose include an f1 lower faring which has to be madeRegards Wayne

[rogerdodger]

Andover Norton - I appologise, you never got my order for F1 Decals, so that's why they were never sent.