F1 noisy Transmission

[Wayne]

Hi AllHad a good time at the MGP, but fear my transmission on the f1 has not, no problem until queuing for the ferry to come home then a rumbling appeared on the right hand side of the engine, on tick over, pull the clutch in noise stops let the clutch out rumbling re appears. My first thought is a loose clutch centre boss or clutch bearing. Or could it be a failed primary chain tensioner. As it’s the fzr gearbox these are supposed to be indestructible.Dos the diaphragm clutch come apart the same way as a commando ie 4" spring compressor screwed into the diaphragm springPs the rotor tips are fine ticks over with no chockingAny help appreciatedRegards Wayne

[Dell Boy]

Hello Wayne, Did you pass me on the mountain on Thursday? I was on my Grey Commander fitted with bright red Krausers. Derek.

[Wayne]

Hi derickYes it was me just befor kates cottage from memory, i did give you a wave as i went pastRegards Wayne

[Dell Boy]

No, it was earlier than that but on the way down. I wasn`t rushing because I knew there was a funeral cortege ahead. There were a couple of single cylinder classic racers had passed by doing some unofficial practiceing. Probably checking there carb jetting up there in the thin air. I wondered what they did with regard to the funeral as they were on open pipes. Derek.

[Wayne]

hi all stll looking for info on the f1 primary and secondry transmission Regards Wayne

[Richard Negus]

quote="Wayne"a rumbling appeared on the right hand side of the engine, on tick over, pull the clutch in noise stops let the clutch out rumbling re appears. This is the typical sound of a gearbox bearing starting to fail - but the F1 bearings are so over-engineered that I doubt this is actually what is happening. I presume there is the full amount of oil in the box ? Does the noise happen in neutral or in gear but stationary, or both ?The usual culprit for primary noise is the chain tensioner not working correctly and the chains flapping about. It could be that the extra drag on the clutch when lifting the pressure plate is sufficient to stop the noise. I'd have the primary cover off for a quick look. You don't need to disturb the clutch for this.The usual reason for the tensioner not working is a small piece of dirt in the non-return valve. Remove the tensioner assembly by removing the two M8 bolts.Dos the diaphragm clutch come apart the same way as a commando ie 4" spring compressor screwed into the diaphragm springSimilar, but you'll need to make an adaptor to suit the two M5 holes in the pressure plate and the 1/2"UNF thread of the Commando tool.R.

[Richard Negus]

As is always the way, press 'Submit' and immediately think of another idea on the subject.Does it make any difference if you lean the bike to the left or right ?A worn gear selector fork can allow a gear to move sideways until the faces of the engagement dogs just touch each other and make a rattling noise. Leaning the bike one way or the other makes it quieter, or noisier.This isn't common on the five speed set but I heard it on an early six-speed conversion where the clearances between the dogs are smaller. I now shim the shafts on these conversions to make sure all the gaps are equal, using a slave gearcase with inspection windows machined out.Anyway, tensioner inspection first as gearbox inspection is an engine-out job !R.

[graham]

Hello Wayne, As Richard mentions;To remove the F1 clutch diaphragm you need a commander/interpol clutch tool which is indeed the same as commando - but with an M8 hole in the middle. If you have the compression tool but need a converter bracket, let me know I'll sort one out for you or let you know the dimensions. http://www.startright.co.uk/index.php?m ... lutch+tool My first job would be to drain the gearbox and clutch oils into clean containers, check quantity then strain through gauze to check for particles. I have a suspicion there will be too much oil in the clutch and not enough in the gearbox. I have seen oil leak from the gearbox into the primary occasionally. There's a flat tin plate behind the clutch which covers the gearchange mechanism. The flange it rests on is narrow.... and it sometimes leaks.I've never had an F1 gearbox with oil in make any nasty noises. Gearbox should be 950cc Primary drive 480cchttp://www.startright.co.uk/index.php?main_pag ... &chapter=1

[Wayne]

Hi graham and richardThanks for the replys, i must admit i did give the bike good seeing to and the gearbox got a good work out. I have had a proplem with oil coming from the breather if i fill it to 950. As soon as the clutch is touched the noise stops, my thought was chain tensioner or clutch bearing. dont notice the noise when in gear and moving. it sometimes stops when in nutral with the clutch out. I will check oil levels at the weakend and drain. Richard i will try your fork selector test allthough at 8.5 k miles would not a thought there should be mutch wear, like wise oil change was 1.5k ago but i have suspected oil seaping between the two chambers and why when ridden hard i used to get a few drops of oil on the exaust i have sean a few examples of this, is it normal on the f1.i must admit i thought the oil was seaping fro primary to the gearbox and not the otherway round thanks for the info there graham. I still have some 4" steam pipe which i made my commando clutch tool out of based on the one in the 1968 norton workshop manual some 25 years ago as the wassel ones looked too flimsy to medose the yzf 750 gear box fit the f1 gear box and if so upto what year yzf i resently saw a close ratio race box type b ratios brand new £450 but didnt know if it would fit it sold within 1/2 h . if i strip the gear box may as well upgrade to six speedRegards Wayne

[graham]

Hello Wayne,Most if not all the Yamaha 6 speed gearboxes will fit. I have fitted three different types. FZR750 and FZR750R OWO1 both seem to be a perfect fit. Some later machines have a shorter output shaft (YZF?) meaning it's a difficult engineering task to lock the final drive sprocket (Only 4 threads protruding).Hope it turns out to be simpler than I think it's going to be :-)Graham

[Wayne]

Hi allI have purchased the grahams rotary dvd from the noc, covers a lot of what has been said and a couple of points on the tensioner not covered. This dvd was well worth the money even if its just to understand how the engines are put together. Previously I sent a lot of time rebuilding vane and screw compressors and as graham points out cleanliness, accurate measurements, take good care of the viton o ring on rebuilding apply to a rotary rebuild, there were a lot of similarities to Grahams techniques to those I used rebuilding the vain air ends. The steel plate covering the gearbox opening, how is this sealed, and can all the seals in the primary chain/engine gearbox hosing be renewed in position on the bike. Thinking of doing the sport as a matter of course, I think the f1 will be a motor outRegards Wayne

[Wayne]

Hi AllStriped the primary chain tensioner of the bike every thing seams free but there is only one white plastic thing inside the one of the pad stem, is this the non return valve, however the chain was not tight at stand still, is this correctThe oil level was about 80cc light in the primary chain case and very black, and I can move the main clutch housing outer edge by 1.5 mm by grabbing the clutch drum and rocking/pushing forwards and backwardsGraham or Richard I would be grateful for any advice

[MrB]

Hello Wayne,If it is the same chain tensioner as used on the IP2 and Commander there is a good exploded diagram in the IP2B section of the workshop manual downloads available on Graham's website.Johnny