Hello to the 588 community

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Jerome588_LE043
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Location: Rueil-Malmaison. FRANCE

Hello to the 588 community

Post by Jerome588_LE043 »

My name is Jérôme Sfartz, living close to Paris, France and I am glad to join this technical community.

In 2014 I bought a Rotary Classic, LE 043, brand new, from a British gentleman Mr Clark.
Before my acquisition, the motorcycle was overhauled under Mr Negus authority.
I am coming quite late to the use of the motorcycle since it was a real nightmare to register in FRANCE !!!
At last I had to wait for her to get antique collectable status in 2018, but is has been only in 2020 that I could get her registered.

I will tale the story in another post, but you may guys not be be interested. Just lest me know.
I will also come to you later for getting some help since the motorcycle gives me starting problems (due to use of <RES/ON/PRI> petrol tap which compared to my very trivial commando petrol tap ? ...) and stalling when hot (at around 130° temp reading degrees)

PS: please be indulgent with my "froggy" writings. wink
Best regards.
Jérôme
johnbirchjar
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Re: Hello to the 588 community

Post by johnbirchjar »

Hi Jerome,
Welcome to the club Very Happy.
At 130deg's,seems like your Classic is running a bit warm,(if memory servs my old Classic used to run at 100&110)even so,it still shouldn't stall,what is the engine idle speed set at?( should be between 800&1000rpm.)rgds,J.B.
Jerome588_LE043
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Re: Hello to the 588 community

Post by Jerome588_LE043 »

Thank you John for your concern.

In fact the engine has a rev idle @850 - @900. It should be OK so far.
New NGK C8E spark plugs (as recommended by Mr. Negus)

I may face difficulties to start the engine:
  • When "cold" (even with very mild weather; 25°C - 28°C), I have to put choke on quite for a while, decreasing pulling at about 10' ! weird or usual?
    • Meantime Rev Counter does not run for long time, and then finishes to give idling information.
  • I get confused with use of <RES / ON / PRI> petrol tap (first time I face such a situation in 50 yrs of biking ...).
    what to do ?
    • put <PRI> at first and then flip to <ON> ? But how long (same interrogation on "hot" start) ?
  • When "hot", it may fail to start going to empty battery (this when about 130° C reading)
Observation:
When "hot", i.e. 130°C
  • No way to put hand on inlet manifolds.
    • Electrical connectors (2) run alongside LH side inlet manifold.
      Is it nominal or has it to be fit another way ?
  • After stalling within traffic jam for example - emptying battery as I told previously, I cannot start again since temp decreases down to a 60°C - 50°C (with some help of an extra boosting battery)
PS:
I read the following post from Mr. G. Wilshaw "Interpol 2 retard boxes"
Could my problem be linked to this related observation?
Best regards.
Jérôme
johnbirchjar
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Re: Hello to the 588 community

Post by johnbirchjar »

OK' re: fuel tap,
In all the 70,000 miles and 30years of ownership I VERY rarely used the "pri",left the tap all the time on "run",and only used the "res" when I actually ran out of fuel!(but in my defence I was getting the "miles per gallon" on "full on main" and then "reserve to dry" wink)
The none starting when hot sounds like smeared end plates but a lot more info is required.
You said that the bike was stored from 2014 till 2018? an then again till 2020?who stored it?and most important, whoever did the storing were they "Rotorey Wise"and understood that putting a rotorie away for a long period of time is nothing like a conventional "ICE",and did you start it up occasionally when it was in storage? and eventually registered to you?and if so, did you take all the necessary precautions?because if not this could well be why you are having trouble,sorry if I sound a bit of a doom monger, but I learnt all this the hard(and expensive evil)way,rgds,J.B.
Jerome588_LE043
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Re: Hello to the 588 community

Post by Jerome588_LE043 »

John B wrote
re: fuel tap,
In all the 70,000 miles and 30years of ownership I VERY rarely used the "pri"
Thank you indeed John; sorry not to have taken time for answering.
Thank you for your advice, but I still get confused with the use of it since LE043 cold start does not work on <ON>, at least without choke.
(No explanation within Classic Owner's Manual about <PRI>; only 2 positions fuel tap <RES, ON> description)
You said that the bike was stored from 2014 till 2018? an then again till 2020?who stored it?
I own the bike since 2014, but was not able to register before 2018 (French "Antique collector" status is at least 30 yrs old)
I had no opportunity to register before 2020; done yet.
It has been stored in a dry indoor heated garage by me wink
most important, whoever did the storing were they "Rotorey Wise"and understood that putting a rotorie away for a long period of time is nothing like a conventional "ICE"
Sorry not to get what you wrote (I keep being french; sorry smiley)
did you take all the necessary precautions?
Can you give me details ? What precautions ?

PS: in comparison to IP 2, is there an Electronic Retard Unit on Classic type, as far I read a post concerning kind of faulty unit strategy by G. Wilshaw ?
Best regards.
Jérôme
johnbirchjar
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Re: Hello to the 588 community

Post by johnbirchjar »

Hi Jerome,
From what I can remember from my Classic(NoLE029)the original Electronic Ignition Unit was the same as the IP2's(but I could be wrong)I distinctly remember because it was so very different from the replacement one from Minimag.
When putting a Norton Rotory in to "long time storage" the procedure I used was to pump lots of 40grade engine oil(which is what I ran the engine on)into the engine (via the spark plug holes)put the plugs back in and slowly turn the engine over by putting the bike in gear and slowly turning the back wheel to liberally smear the engine internals, then every month or so I would turn the engine over using the same method until I was ready to start using the bike again.
The start up procedure I used was to take out the plugs,cover the front mudguard with some old cloth,lots of cloth on the garage floor,and spin the engine over using the starter motor untill the oil stops spraying from the plugholes,wheel the bike out of the garage,new plugs and fire the old girl up, but be warned,LOTS OF SMOKE,and I mean LOTS exclaim,(best warn the neighbours wink)hope this helps,rgds,J.B.
johnbirchjar
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Re: Hello to the 588 community

Post by johnbirchjar »

Hi Jerome,
Looking back over your previous entries I noticed your comment on "Not starting on Run without the choke" No surprise there,most petrol engine vehicles that I have owned/driven, usually required "choke"when starting from cold,J.B.
Jerome588_LE043
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Re: Hello to the 588 community

Post by Jerome588_LE043 »

Thank you very much John for your concern to my questionings.

In the meantime, I checked CLASSIC vs IP2 documentations and if it appears that both machines are provided with E.I.U (thank's God smiley ), IP2 is fitted with Idling Retard Unit whereas Classic is not.
I wonder why, and why it should be mandatory on IP2 since it does not seem to be on CLASSIC.
Coils are 12 volts (Japanese ? I may be wrong) on IP2, wearing iridium spark plugs, whereas it is more "conventional" (I have my Commando as reference in mind) with LUCAS 6 v coils (same as Commando at Andover Norton selling sheets) wearing casual C8E NGK plugs on CLASSIC.

So that my anxious questioning about "Interpol 2 retard boxes" as a forwarded problem to CLASSIC is over!

At the light of what you mention John:
When putting a Norton Rotory in to "long time storage" the procedure I used was to pump lots of 40 grade engine oil ...
I may have to be tolerant with some difficulties with "cold" start since the bike was never used from new until now.
Same with "hot" start, except that I still do not know how to deal with fuel tap positions (<ON> vs <PRI>) ... exclaim

But not the least, and considering new C8E NGK plugs, how come:
  • Engine rev counter does rev for a while when starting "cold" or "hot", and then revving ?
    • when "cold" this is true each starting time
    • when "hot" it is random like
  • Engine may stall when hot (at about 130°Celsius reading) ?
So, could it be a faulty coil (It seems Rev counter stands on the "way" of RH coil and connected to it on CLASSIC wiring diagram) ?
Best regards.
Jérôme
johnbirchjar
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Re: Hello to the 588 community

Post by johnbirchjar »

OK,sorry if I am banging on about the first time the bike was ever started from new(or stood for a long while) but it is VERY VERY IMPORTANT evil,so tell me what the procedure was,and was it you.or were you just an on looker?J.B.
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Interpol2471
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Re: Hello to the 588 community

Post by Interpol2471 »

The rev counter failing is the rev counter itself as the capacitors inside dry out and often cause them to fail.
Various rubbish in various states of decay.....
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