Commander wobbles

[pete]

Hi Guys,Has anyone else had the wobbles with a Commander?With mine, the handlebars start to shake side to side when slowing down from around 50-40 mph.It's not too bad but it certainly isn't pleasant either.I'm just wondering if anyone else has had similar or has any suggestions.Pete

[kanonkopdrinker]

Does it do that only when you lessen the weight of your arms on the handlebars?It may be that you have the wobble as in 'wobble & weave'; Dunlop (I think) produced a film with Murray Walker some years ago (featuring among others a Suzuki GT750 and a Laverda) and I think it was a case of, 'They all do that, sir'.Something to do with steering geometry - but it does seem common across various machines.I think I am right in saying that the heavier the rider, the less likely it is to occur.DC

[pete]

If I have my hands firmly on the handlebars it pretty much stops it but I can feel the vibration of the front end wanting to oscillate. It's definitely a front end oscillation and not rear end. It's not the wobble and weave you described. It happens mainly when I ease off the throttle to slowly decelerate from around 50-40 mph. I had wondered if it was uneven wear or balance on the front tyre but it looks absolutely fine. Has anyone else experienced similar with a commander ? What front tyres to people favour ? Pete

[Richard Negus]

Hi Pete,Assuming that things like wheel bearings and head bearings are ok (do check the very expensive double-row rear wheel bearing hidden behind the cush drive), then the tyres are probably causing the problem. They may not look worn (much), but they're the usual cause of your fault.Personal preference is for a pair of Bridgestone BT45's.R.

[pete]

Thanks Richard, I'll check all the bearings as you suggest but I have no reason to suspect any of them are on their way out. I put a new BT45 on the rear last summer which has done less than 1000miles but the front tyre came with the bike and needs to go. I was also going to check the wheel alignment. Could that be contributing ? It's been asleep for the winter and it's about time it was woken up and taken out to play. Pete

[Richard Negus]

Pete,The one in the rear wheel is difficult to spot as the cush drive plate gives it some support. Best checked every new rear tyre, and add some fresh grease - when the bearing fails, the outer race can turn in the wheel and wreck it.I don't suppose your old front tyre is an Avon by any chance ? Misaligned wheels will make it steer differently in left or right bends.R.

[pete]

It's a BT45 with about 2.5mm thread depth still on it and no signs of hardening or cracking. I'm reluctant to ditch it just for the sake of it until I'm sure it's the problem. I hate shotgun-maintenance. Much prefer to find what's causing the problem before I start replacing things. Pete

[pete]

Just checked the tyre and it's dated 2505 (June 2005) so I guess it is probably time to replace it. Pete

[TRL]

My Commander does weave and wobble quite a lot, particularly now the roads are so worn and potholed here. I have ridden it all through this winter and the roads around here are so rutted that it self steers a lot. I just have to go with it and allow extra room for manoeuvre as I ride. I just don't have complete confidence in the front end. Perhaps it is time to look at upside down forks!I did have one recent incident performing an emergency stop from 70+ in a relatively straight line when the bike weaved very dramatically under heavy braking, I had to lose the speed quickly so just had to feather the brakes, wait until the speed dropped and it came back to me before I could let the brakes off enough to steer a different course. I have a worn Conti on the front and worn BT45 on the rear. Time for a new pair of BT45's soon.

[Tim H]

Hi PeteMy quess is that it is the tyres or alignment. I have had this problem a couple of times with my commander but admittedly at slower speeds. The tyres can look fine but still have some uneven wear. The Commander is tyre sensitve but that does not mean buying the most expensive is best!The steering head also, after many miles, may need tightenning. This is a simple job although you may need to add to your toolbox! I also had to replace the front wheel bearings at about 60,000 miles.Tim H

[Dell Boy]

They all do that sir!!! New tyres, doesn`t matter what make or combination stop it for a short while. It`s yet another design defect. Sometimes I wonder why we persevere with them. I have never had a Commander/Interpol that I could ride" hands off ". All of them went into a serious wobble once the tyres became slightly worn. I wonder if it is the fairing/weight balance. Too much on the front? On the featherbed "hands off" I can flick it from side to side with complete confidence, On the Commanders I keep a firm grip on the bars at all times. Derek.

[johnbirchjar]

The only time I ever had front end wobble on the Classic(with or without fairing) was one time when I was realy loaded up with camping gear, must admit though that I have never tried "hands off",I know i'ts asking the obvious but I suppose you have checked the tyre presure? Regards J.B.

[pete]

Thanks for all the replies. It's reassuring to know that it's "normal" for them to do this. I checked over all the wheel bearings and the head bearings at the weekend and there is no sign of play in any of them. Tyre pressures are probably ok when I'm riding. I've a small leak from the valve stem on the rear wheel so I check the tyre pressures every time I'm out on it (which is far from every day). I guess it's down to a new tyre on the front. Pete

[Malc]

The commander wobbles the police used to complain about were at high speed (100mph plus) and I am sure Mr R. will put me right, but I remember South Yorkshire (Sheffield) police bikes being fitted with a longer swinging arm. What happened to them?The problem was reduced by slackening off the frame/eng/gearbox bolts and re-aligning the position of the frame in relation to the vertical line of the face for the primary drive cover.Malc

[kanonkopdrinker]

If memory serves, from the Dunlop film, a new front tyre accompanied by a worn rear tyre tends to make the situation worse ....

[rotaryart]

Many years ago my H2 had this problem that was never fixed, shake was quite violent between 90 and 120mph. I just made sure I was under 90 or over 120, problem went away. I had been told it was a know problem.

[Richard Negus]

quote="Malc" I am sure Mr R. will put me right, but I remember South Yorkshire (Sheffield) police bikes being fitted with a longer swinging arm. What happened to them?MalcQuite correct, but I don't recall how many were so modified ; lucky owners should be able to note the greater distance from suspension unit mount to the wheel spindle slot. I think they were 1 1/4" longer = 2 chain pitches. Alloy rear fork for the Supreme Commander is extended the same.As an aside, the original Aurora that I rode in 1978 weaved from around 90mph ; a 1 1/4" longer rear fork raised the weave speed and was fitted from first production of the IP2. If you look at the chain gaiter of any IP2 or Commander, you'll see two lines in the rubber where an extension piece was added to the mould.R.

[Dell Boy]

Mine is totally stable at high speeds it`s slowing down it doesn`t like. I do think it is weight transfer on the front. Thinking about it, the more weight I have carried the smaller the problem. Perhaps better with all the police radio etc. hanging off the back end. Further thought, on my IP2 I had a heavy stainless steel tow bar frame for towing a trailer which put a lot of weight very far back & that weaved. I spoke to a local bike dealer about the weave & he said," What do you expect with that bloody great tow hitch on the back!". But, on or off, it still weaved. Derek.

[MrB]

I've followed this with some interest as my IP2 develops handlebar wobble when slowing down and speed drops to about 40mph. It stops again just below 20. I have always had Battlax 45's fitted. I'm on set three now. I would say wheel wobble is more pronounced these days than it has ever been (8 years), not sure if becoming worse was coincident with fitting the new tyres last season. One hand on the bars is enough to keep it damped, two hands on and it is noticeable but nothing more. Two hands off and it can get very scary. A good incentive to keep hands on the bars then, but I'd like to cure it if I can - I can only assume that it happens for a reason and it can't aid the front tyre life expectancy.One thing I've noticed is a decent weight such as a security chain in the fairing pocket makes it worse, strangely more so when in the right pocket.Johnny.

[graham]

Interpol:Slacken off the two bolts that hold the frame to the gearbox case, remove both air transfer ports, raise the front wheel with a chock that starts to lift the centre stand. Tighten the two frame bolts.Fit Very heavy bar end weights (FJ1200 or similar) Run tyre pressures at 36 front 42 rear.Commander:Slacken the two bolts that hold the frame to the gearbox case, remove both air transfer ports, drive a wooden wedge between the intermediate plate and the frame, retighten the frame bolts thus increasing the headstock angle as much as possible, make sure the forks are flush or even slightly below the top yoke. Inflate tyres to 36 psi front 42 psi rear. If that doesn't do it. Fit a pair of HEAVY bar end weights (FJ1200) If that doesn't work buy an extended swinging arm from me! If that doesn't work buy an ultimate Commander kit from Richard :-) ( Being a purist, I'm not sure about the last option.. :-)) Increasing headstock angle usually helps but it's not a cure for every machine. Rising rate fork springs can help too. Graham.