Classic at auction.

[Hunter]

Noticed in Öld Bike Mart"magazine that Bonhams were auctioning at the Autumn Stafford Sale on 21at October. They listed a Norton Classic nomber 040, with zero miles on it.I just checked auction results and it sold for 12,074 pounds.

[Richard Negus]

Jeez! Allowing for commissions etc., that's still 25% more than my guesstimate.That'll give all Classic owners a warm feeling. Should I increase the insured value of my fake?

[Interpol2471]

Crumbs and as an IP2 is a much better bike with all the extra's such as a nice full fairing and luggage capability who knows what their price will be rocketing too? Personally I dont like these over inflated prices as I guess like many my rider policy is mainly on value and I have already been stitched up by my Silk and I dont really need anything else putting up my policy I have my bikes to ride and enjoy not to gloat at the value or as an investiment. Then again I bought my IP2 for less than £2000 and I am sure she is worth a bit more now so I should really look at the value to keep my baby safe.MADNESS the worls's gone mad....

[johnbirchjar]

Twelve grand for a Classic ,recession?what recession,(and thats another Classic we won't be seeing ridden to rallies!)J.B.

[Dell Boy]

The value to the buyer I suspect was that zero miles means new & unused.How much would a equivalent new modern bike cost in a showroom? About the same amount i suspect. I dont know because I haven`t been in a showroom for 20 or more years & dont buy the comics or bike magazines so only have a rough idea of new bike costs.I suspect that it will never be ridden so as to maintain its value as being a new unused 24 year old machine.It will probably disappear into a museum or a private collection.It would be interesting to know if it was a worthwhile investment or could the original purchase price have made a better return if invested in say, property. I suspect bricks & mortar would have been a far better investment as in 1988 property prices had crashed through the floor & were at rock bottom.I dont think this sale will make much difference to well used machine values.

[Wayne]

Hi allObviously two people wanted the bike, what would be of more intereest would be how many people actualy bided on the bike, and what did the othere biders drop out at. Dose anyone know what the price gude was as this value will be more inline with what your isurance company think the value is. As a comparison, Padgett wants 10k plus for new 350lc's, however a used one is worth nothing like this.Its now very unlikly that 0 miles rotarys will be redgiesterd for the road, the drop in value will be too great, however as the collector/museums will go after theses first, we should be ok untill theres a massive que to buy the used bikes prices should remain sencerble and afordable to run.I do womder how many rotary's left Norton unregisterd, i would guess IP2 and F1 Sport very few, Comanders a few more, F1's over half the numbers builtand proberly the same for the Classic as they seamed to attract the investor type or the rich mans toy with just a few die hard enthusiasts who road them and generaly were not rich buy any means. (i do include my self in the poor man bracket, a company owned my F1 and did 600 miles in 2 years from new) Regards Wayne

[johnbirchjar]

Re; Dell Boys observation on "Bricks & Morter", What was a Classic new in'88,five and a half grand?I doubt one would have got much of a pile of B & M for that sort of money,(not in the south east anyway)ride safe,J.B.

[Dell Boy]

In 1989 I tried to sell a 3 bedroomed semi located on the east london/essex borders. The sale price steadily dropped from 86k down to 37k over 6 months when that buyer dropped outThe equivalent house now, even in these recessionary times, is about £210k.Thats about a fourfold increase against maybe threefold [if auction fees are added] for the Classic?Nothing was done with the Classic in that time so it was pretty useless article whereas the house was occupied & provided a home & shelter for a family.Derek F.

[Rotor 1]

Look at this webpage in Germany what they ask for an new commander?! http://www.autoscout24.de/Moto/Details. ... 0Commander owners there is hopeRotor 1

[ZFD]

That Commander in Germany has been advertized constantly and for years in the various mags as well on different internet platforms, and nobody wants it at that price. So Commander owners, this is no price guide, or rather it shows what one can NOT get for a Commander! I suspect the "new" Norton Commando 961s are also snapped up to a good proportion by "investors" and not ridden. From what I have seen in my 35 years in the trade I don't think I have seen a rare/exotic motorcycle that turned out to be a financially worthwhile investment. I have always bought my own motorcycles for fun, and in that way they were an investment! Joe Seifert

[Richard Negus]

Just for comparison at the moment, there THREE Honda NR750s on eBay right now. One unregistered at £105,000, and two very low mileage ones at 100k and 85k. They don't get offered at those prices by being better motorcycles than any other, they're there to win bragging rights.The attraction with that Classic is the same, but to a lesser degree; there can't be many zero miles examples in good condition remaining.

[johnbirchjar]

Hi guys,What interests me on this Classic is the "zero miles" on the clock ,when I bought my Classic(unregistered) it had 25 "factory test miles" on the clock,I take it from this that Nortons did not do a few factory test miles on all bikes, just the odd one here and there, J.B.

[Richard Negus]

Hi John,I think Bob Rowley personally road tested every one of the Classics, covering somewhere between 10 and 20 miles.It is quite possible that a slave speedo was used on this bike and a new, zero miles, one fitted at the buyer's request after the bike had been passed off.

[Wayne]

Hi AllThe best missed invetment on a rotary was the duckhams spair bike it was up for sale in 95 for £8k it was bought by the museum for £50K you could have bought all three in 95 for this figure?Thats definatly better than bricks and morter, and all those Noc members who said it would be a bad investment and were against any of the duchams bikes been purchase by thhe club?Regards Wayne

[johnbirchjar]

I remember going to an auction sometime in the early 2,000's,at (I think)the RAF museum in North London,where the WHOLE of the Duckhams Racing Team(mobile w/shop,bikes,tools,spares,the whole 9 yards)was up for grabs with a reserve of fourty grand,it didn't even make the reserve .I am not at all surprised at the decision of the NOC not to buy the Duckams bike,I got the impression that those "on't committy" have never concidered rotories "proper Nortons" anyway,but I could be wrong,if so, I appologise,J.B.

[ZFD]

I for one didn't then think the NOC should buy a bike, at that time still naiively thinking club fees should be invested in re-manufacturing parts that were not commercially viable to make- like Slimline mudguards etc. Since then that hasn't happened, but the funds were used for many other purposes, one being to buy and distribute "Commando" and "Dominator" pirate parts of oriental origin. So, in retrospect, they should probably have bought the bike instead. As Al Tritten- "Roadholder"-editor for many years- once said to me: "Joe, remember NOC committee members are amateurs. Not Norton experts, but people who like to fill a social function!" So you may have given the NOC committee of the time too much credit- they probably didn't even know Nortons made rotaries!

[Dell Boy]

The LOTTO started the week before the Hendon auction & I bought a ticket dreaming that if I won I would buy the Norton Rotary Equipe.As I now dont own them you can see I wasn`t a winner!!I had a chat with Colin Seeley there & bought of him the Duckhams display board listing all the Norton teams 1994 successes of which there were many.He said I could have the whole equipe including enough spares for halve a seasons racing for £50,000. If only!!At the Shenstone factory auction by chance I pulled a drawer open to one of the many full filing cabinets in the sale & pulled out a letter written by Colin Seeley to the Aquiliano family at the end of 1994 saying if they provided £50,000 to fund the race team he would guarantee to win the 1995 British Superbike Championship again. In the brief search through the papers I did not find a reply from them.Derek F.

[Wayne]

Hi allWhen i joind the Noc 85 i remaind a member for 2 years but droped out due to Commando's not been proper nortons at the time. in 92 i joind againe due to me purchasing the f1 and a requirement for the insurance. In 95 commando's were proper nortons in the noc it was the rotary's turn to be the underdog. I remember and sill have the Roadholers of the time and the articals relating to the Duckhams bikes refferd to the main race bikes at £18,000 each only mutch later on did the spair bike get mentiond at £8,000, ges what two weeks befor that issue i had purchased a new Triumph thunderbird @£7500, I would have bought the bike had it been made known as soon as the bikes discosed as been for sale. I resinegd in disgussed at the whole affare and joind the Vmcc for my insurance requirementsPredudice is still there in clubs it appears the Crmc consider a Fz600 a classic race bike but pedigree Rc30, Owo1, gsxr ect are not and apparantly classic only applies to pre 86 race bikes, the 25 year rule dose not appliy dispite what the club was first set up for 11 year old bikes as bhr had the 25 year rule. Even Bhr appliy the same ethos and are not interested in a norton in the bears class, i would be a happy man if i found out Malcom raced his bike in 86 as well as 87 as this would make them eligerble. Why whats the reason for this, they are scared the jap stuff would be too fast end of story, I keep posting the race of aces from snetterton on youtube with coments like its the nortons that would be fast and the bigest threatRegards Wayne

[ZFD]

The Aquilinis ("Tortellinis")were landed with Norton against their will. Only because they lent Nelson Scalbania ("Scandalia") the money to buy it and he couldn't pay the loan back. After they took it off his hands they were desperate to get rid of it, and/or find some "sponsor" to make it walk before they did. No way were they going to reply to Colin Seeley's letter.I remember a meeting in Munich with old man Aquilini- styled along Marlon Brando in "The Godfather"- and a group of "consulentes" (Aquilini spoke little English, and most of the conversation was in Italian) around the table, in which I was told they were going to do the "Paris-Dakar" on a "Norton V-Twin". They claimed they had sponsors to fund it.They did not understand my remark if I was to re-start Ferrari I wouldn't do it with a Jeep......... As usual, nothing came off it, until they managed to unload their leetle problem to "Wally" Moore, the lottery winner.

[johnbirchjar]

Wally More ?,Tell me more,oops ,J.B.

[Bob]

Hi John,I think Bob Rowley personally road tested every one of the Classics, covering somewhere between 10 and 20 miles.It is quite possible that a slave speedo was used on this bike and a new, zero miles, one fitted at the buyer's request after the bike had been passed off.

Yes, every classic also had a signed log book, signed by David Garside, Phillippe LeRoux and myself once it passed final test and inspection.

Sorry for the delay in reply!!

[Interpol2471]

Best I look mate

[Interpol2471]

Well out of interest I can shed some light on this bike!
Been contacted by the buyer as he wanted to ride the bike but has found its a rebuilt box of bits and is removing the engine for moly and rebuild there are a number of bodged parts and whoever sold it should be flogged with a wet noodle and knew it wasn't zero miles and therefore lied to Bonhams !

[johnbirchjar]

Can Bonhams be held to account for miss-selling?I suspect not,their a***s are well covered somewhere in the small print (another case of "Let the Buyer Beware"),J.B.

[Interpol2471]

I think we know that answer but I can assure you that's not a zero miles bike or factory