My mistake. Just checked the invoice and the engine was removed but it was the gearbox that was rebuilt with various new parts. I can't see how that was done without taking the chain off but it's academic now - the issue is being corrected without any consequences.
But thanks for posting those two pics - very useful reference for my planned full overhaul next year or soon thereafter.
Cheers Richard.
Mark
Oily rear wheel
-
Richard Negus
- moderator
- Posts: 1060
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:11 pm
- Location: Wilds of Lincolnshire
Re: Oily rear wheel
You can take out the complete gear set, including the sleeve gear, without removing the sprocket.
You do, however, need to remove the oil pump and the sprocket cover plate. Depending on your machine's age and mod history, you may then find a bug nut holding the sprocket to the sleeve gear or a circlip holding the outrigger bearing sleeve.
But if you want to remove the sprocket, then the chain has to come off first as there's not quite enough room in the casting to pull the chain away from the sprocket.
Look what I found when searching for a photo to illustrate the lack of clearance!
I found this in 2012 on a Commander rebuild. You're not alone.
You do, however, need to remove the oil pump and the sprocket cover plate. Depending on your machine's age and mod history, you may then find a bug nut holding the sprocket to the sleeve gear or a circlip holding the outrigger bearing sleeve.
But if you want to remove the sprocket, then the chain has to come off first as there's not quite enough room in the casting to pull the chain away from the sprocket.
Look what I found when searching for a photo to illustrate the lack of clearance!
I found this in 2012 on a Commander rebuild. You're not alone.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Just a bike-less old fogey now. Boo-hoo!
Re: Oily rear wheel
Just when you guys thought all had gone quiet on the split link drama, I’m afraid it has been running on and on and on – for me anyway.
Having tracked down a ‘soft’ split link at RGM, I ordered a couple and they arrived the next day. However, after I wrecked the first one, when I tried to flare the second link’s pin, the so-called ‘heavy duty’ tool I’d bought off ebay just collapsed! Word of warning, if you are going to buy a heavy duty chain tool, don’t get one of the £20 two-part ones. I subsequently forked out over £60 for an Oxford real heavy duty bit of kit from my local bike shop, which is a solid one piece tool.
Surprisingly though, even this could not flare the pins, and I was applying as much pressure as I could via a long torque wrench, but the pins still would not flare and hardly seemed to be touched at all by the tool. I then assumed the pins were hardened, so popped off an email to RGM just to let them know. In the meantime, I ordered a couple of the Andover Norton links.
Hats off to RGM for their customer service on such a low value order, they called me back the next day and were as mystified as I was as to why the pins would not flare and asked me to let them know how I get on with the AN links.
Whilst waiting for the links, I took up the time to fit a new blade fuse holder, new wiring for the stand warning light which had gone awol, made some space around the rectifier/ignition unit to help disperse heat, and fitted a new charge warning lamp and a new electronic flasher unit! Little jobs that I thought I’d do next winter on the major refurb but what the heck, the wiring is still a mess and that will have to wait... The links from AN finally arrived and so I had a go at fitting one. First of all, I reckon the RGM link pin is definitely hardened, as it came straight out when I put the extractor on it, so my previous attempts to flare it had done absolutely nothing to alter the width of the pin.
After I fitted the AN link, the pins look slightly longer than the other links, but it definitely started to flare, though I then noticed a tiny split has appeared in the pin. I've had a real close look at it and it would probably be OK but I'm not going to risk it. As I bought a couple of links from AN I'll use the other one and have another go, but not for a day or two as I’ve now got to the stage where I’ve had enough of chains!
Update will follow if I ever get a final result on this darn link but how can such a straight-forward job be so much hassle??
Cheers all.
Mark
Having tracked down a ‘soft’ split link at RGM, I ordered a couple and they arrived the next day. However, after I wrecked the first one, when I tried to flare the second link’s pin, the so-called ‘heavy duty’ tool I’d bought off ebay just collapsed! Word of warning, if you are going to buy a heavy duty chain tool, don’t get one of the £20 two-part ones. I subsequently forked out over £60 for an Oxford real heavy duty bit of kit from my local bike shop, which is a solid one piece tool.
Surprisingly though, even this could not flare the pins, and I was applying as much pressure as I could via a long torque wrench, but the pins still would not flare and hardly seemed to be touched at all by the tool. I then assumed the pins were hardened, so popped off an email to RGM just to let them know. In the meantime, I ordered a couple of the Andover Norton links.
Hats off to RGM for their customer service on such a low value order, they called me back the next day and were as mystified as I was as to why the pins would not flare and asked me to let them know how I get on with the AN links.
Whilst waiting for the links, I took up the time to fit a new blade fuse holder, new wiring for the stand warning light which had gone awol, made some space around the rectifier/ignition unit to help disperse heat, and fitted a new charge warning lamp and a new electronic flasher unit! Little jobs that I thought I’d do next winter on the major refurb but what the heck, the wiring is still a mess and that will have to wait... The links from AN finally arrived and so I had a go at fitting one. First of all, I reckon the RGM link pin is definitely hardened, as it came straight out when I put the extractor on it, so my previous attempts to flare it had done absolutely nothing to alter the width of the pin.
After I fitted the AN link, the pins look slightly longer than the other links, but it definitely started to flare, though I then noticed a tiny split has appeared in the pin. I've had a real close look at it and it would probably be OK but I'm not going to risk it. As I bought a couple of links from AN I'll use the other one and have another go, but not for a day or two as I’ve now got to the stage where I’ve had enough of chains!
Update will follow if I ever get a final result on this darn link but how can such a straight-forward job be so much hassle??
Cheers all.
Mark
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Re: Oily rear wheel
Mark,
It might just be bad luck on your part, but I've used quite a few of the RGM Renold rivet links over the last few years, without trouble.
In fact I've still a few left, and have just checked to see whether they are hardened at all. The ones I have are "soft", and can be filed easily.
I think they are made of "hard" material, but not hardened.
Not much help I know, but I use a Whalebrand riveting tool which use a sleeve to wind on the sideplate, and a hardened pin that fits into the
centre of the sleeve. This pin has a vee on the business end, and a shoulder on the other, incorporating a plastic cap. Hitting this with a hammer peens
over the link pins.
ATB, John.
It might just be bad luck on your part, but I've used quite a few of the RGM Renold rivet links over the last few years, without trouble.
In fact I've still a few left, and have just checked to see whether they are hardened at all. The ones I have are "soft", and can be filed easily.
I think they are made of "hard" material, but not hardened.
Not much help I know, but I use a Whalebrand riveting tool which use a sleeve to wind on the sideplate, and a hardened pin that fits into the
centre of the sleeve. This pin has a vee on the business end, and a shoulder on the other, incorporating a plastic cap. Hitting this with a hammer peens
over the link pins.
ATB, John.
-
Richard Negus
- moderator
- Posts: 1060
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:11 pm
- Location: Wilds of Lincolnshire
Re: Oily rear wheel
Morning John!
Now there's a coincidence, another Whale #60.
These must be 30 years old - I wonder if they're still made.
Now there's a coincidence, another Whale #60.
These must be 30 years old - I wonder if they're still made.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Just a bike-less old fogey now. Boo-hoo!
-
Mick Taylor
- moderator
- Posts: 182
- Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:59 pm
- Location: Ivychurch, Kent
Re: Oily rear wheel
Here is my take on my own rivet link saga......I have done many cam chain soft links and I think a drive chain or two a long time ago, most of my old irons are fine with spring links..... but I've never had trouble like this one, the first problem was actually getting hold of a suitable link......RGM were commendably quick, the link turned up within a day or so, but on fitting it, using a DID KM500 tool, I was far from happy with the result. The pins seemed too short, leaving hardly any material to be flared or peened over.
Here is how it turned out. I did actually ride round the block with that fitted, but I was more than a bit nervous about it, so I ordered a link from Andover using Richard's part number....I think it comes up on the system as an O ring link, but from memory there is normally a shoulder on the pins on O ring links to prevent the O rings being crushed and that was not present on this link, and the length of the pins seemed just right, so I'm happy it's a suitable link.
Here is how this one turned out, using the same tool. There is a micro crack at one point, but I don't anticipate any problems with this one, it has actually flared where the previous one had not and it is free moving where the RGM version had stiction and it feels exactly the same as other links in the chain.
I would happily button up these gaiters and never undo them again....
Here is how it turned out. I did actually ride round the block with that fitted, but I was more than a bit nervous about it, so I ordered a link from Andover using Richard's part number....I think it comes up on the system as an O ring link, but from memory there is normally a shoulder on the pins on O ring links to prevent the O rings being crushed and that was not present on this link, and the length of the pins seemed just right, so I'm happy it's a suitable link.
Here is how this one turned out, using the same tool. There is a micro crack at one point, but I don't anticipate any problems with this one, it has actually flared where the previous one had not and it is free moving where the RGM version had stiction and it feels exactly the same as other links in the chain.
I would happily button up these gaiters and never undo them again....
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Re: Oily rear wheel
Morning Richard,
Mine's exactly the same, except that there hole you have in your knurled sleeve is missing on the one I have. This makes it a bit
of a ball ache winding on the tight link side plates with mole grips.
Graham sourced mine 10 years or so ago, so I would think they're still available.
Mine's exactly the same, except that there hole you have in your knurled sleeve is missing on the one I have. This makes it a bit
of a ball ache winding on the tight link side plates with mole grips.
Graham sourced mine 10 years or so ago, so I would think they're still available.