Holding clutch in and oil supply

Post Reply
MikeBristol
moderator
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:26 pm

Holding clutch in and oil supply

Post by MikeBristol »

Learning the little ways of my Classic, where neutral is not easy to find. So I often have the clutch in at junctions for a time; the Owners Manual says to do this only for 'a few seconds' - will I blow the engine up? The difficulty of seeing the neutral light in bright sunshine compounds the problem - any easy way to improve that? Bike was recommissioned at Andover not so long ago so I'm pretty sure the g/box is as good as it can be. Thanks for any tips. Mike
johnbirchjar
moderator
Posts: 1633
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:20 pm

Re: Holding clutch in and oil supply

Post by johnbirchjar »

Hi Mike,
I believe most rotories suffer with the "finding neutral" when stationary,what I got into the habit with my Classic was to just snick the box into neutral just before coming to a standstill,(I have to do the same with my Deauville)ride safe,J.B.
MikeBristol
moderator
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Holding clutch in and oil supply

Post by MikeBristol »

Thanks John. That's what I aim for, but difficult in some traffic conditions. Partly why it would be handy to more easily see the neutral light for reassurance! Mike
Ian
moderator
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:45 pm

Re: Holding clutch in and oil supply

Post by Ian »

Don't forget that if you sit with the clutch lever pulled in, the oil pump is not running. Mr Negus once told me they will run 'for longer than you think' like this but I've never had the nerve.

I fitted clutch lifting ball bearings 1mm bigger to lift theplates a bit further but actually just snick into neutral as I come to a halt.

Ian
Ian
moderator
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:45 pm

Re: Holding clutch in and oil supply

Post by Ian »

Don't forget that if you sit with the clutch lever pulled in, the oil pump is not running. Mr Negus once told me they will run 'for longer than you think' like this but I've never had the nerve.

I fitted clutch lifting ball bearings 1mm bigger to lift theplates a bit further but actually just snick into neutral as I come to a halt.

Ian
johnbirchjar
moderator
Posts: 1633
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:20 pm

Re: Holding clutch in and oil supply

Post by johnbirchjar »

I did the same as Ian with bigger ball bearings,but it made no discernible difference,J.B.
Anthony Duffield
Site Admin
Posts: 300
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:13 am

Re: Holding clutch in and oil supply

Post by Anthony Duffield »

I also fitted larger ball bearings, it made no difference.

I find neutral as I come to a stop, if I miss the chance I stop the engine with the stop/run switch, get neutral restart, it works for me.
MikeBristol
moderator
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Holding clutch in and oil supply

Post by MikeBristol »

Thanks all. Clearly I need to practice my 'snicking' into neutral technique and adopt Anthony's stop and re-start procedure when it fails, Mike
rustynuts
moderator
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:40 pm

Re: Holding clutch in and oil supply

Post by rustynuts »

The size of the ball bearings make no difference to the clutch lift. Whether you push a pea or a boulder the same distance up the same hill, the change in height is the same for both. It is the gradient of the ramps on the actuating mechanism that determine the distance the clutch rod moves for a particular amount of travel of the clutch lever.

The hydraulic clutch conversion gives increased clutch lift and makes finding neutral a breeze. I believe AN still sell the kit.
MikeBristol
moderator
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Holding clutch in and oil supply

Post by MikeBristol »

That's a useful idea - how easy to fit? Anyone else vouch for it?
johnbirchjar
moderator
Posts: 1633
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:20 pm

Re: Holding clutch in and oil supply

Post by johnbirchjar »

I remember trying a hydralike converted clutch that someone had fitted to a Commander,it didn't make the clutch leaver any lighter to operate,didn't actually ride the bike,so can't comment on"finding neutral",so seeing as I had mastered the art of finding neutral before stopping,I didn't think it was worth the outlay,J.B.
mick695
moderator
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:00 pm
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

Re: Holding clutch in and oil supply

Post by mick695 »

I fitted the AN hydraulic clutch a few months ago.

It's a really nice piece of kit, however it will not fit straight onto a standard chaincase.

The hole in the chaincase needs to be drilled out to about 27mm, I'd have a look through my notes to remind myself smiley and a second hole drilled to locate the unit in place.

Remember also to factor in the price of the handlebar unit and hydraulic pipe.

I've not had the opportunity to do many miles with it fitted yet, but all seems to work well so far.

Cheers

Mick
MikeBristol
moderator
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Holding clutch in and oil supply

Post by MikeBristol »

I'll be interested to know how you get on with the conversion. For me it might be too expensive a fix unless I really can't perfect my technique to find neutral more easily.
johnbirchjar
moderator
Posts: 1633
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:20 pm

Re: Holding clutch in and oil supply

Post by johnbirchjar »

Back in the day when I rode the Classic and tested the hydraulic clutch(time flies so I expect it's 15/20 years? ago)I thought it to expensive for the difference it made(can't even hazard a guess at the cost today)J.B.
Clive603
moderator
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:42 pm

Re: Holding clutch in and oil supply

Post by Clive603 »

The hydraulic clutch conversion fitted by Richard Negus to my Supreme Commander is certainly a bit easier to operate than the cable one.

But, for a small handed guy like me, it moved the biting point even further out leaving me working it with the tips of my fingers and a seriously stretched hand. Less than good.

Rummaging around the E-Bay cheapy Chinee import section uncovered some apparently suitable, allegedly Yamaha fitting, CNC machined dog leg levers. After some simple modifications on the Bridgeport they fitted just fine and bought the biting point back to a more sensible 2/3 rds ish travel. Nicely within my size 6 handspan. Was very pleased to find them off the shelf as I wasn't looking forward to drawing up my own set and manually machining them on the Bridgeport. Approximately a week of my life that I had better things to do with!

Switching to Castrol R from the standard EP140 oil in the gearbox after the first oil change on my first Commander made the change lighter and neutral finding easier. During the Supreme upgrade I got Richard to send the gearbox innards to Okerlion-Balzers to get a DLC coating applied. As favoured by many race teams. Which made things even lighter. So much so that I've never bothered to finally do a best of breed fix by fitting proper, side to side stabilised, bearings to the gear pedal and rose joints to the linkage. That particular bit of productionising cheapeness has been irritating me every time I wash the bike for around 35 years. Looks like its going to carry-on doing so.

Have to say that the clutch and gearbox operation are light years ahead of the lightswitch derived horror clutch and inconsistently weighted gear change on my Yamaha GTS. Frankly every modern bike I've encountered has made me nostalgic in greater or lesser degree for the sweet clutch and box on my Velo Viper and Thruxton.

Clive
MikeBristol
moderator
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Holding clutch in and oil supply

Post by MikeBristol »

Nice run out yesterday to check getting neutral. Getting easier with a bit of practice, but still tricky, and I wouldn't like to experiment in heavy traffic. It was sunny, so seeing the neutral light was difficult too. Must find a way to improve that. Switching to my BMW K75 showed how much more pleasant it is when neutral can be easily found, and having a gear indicator is a plus!
Post Reply