fuel

[John Webber]

Has anyone any opinions how ethanol in fuel is going to affect Norton rotaries?

[rustynuts]

Well, it has caused all the Petseal in my fuel tank to flake away and expose several leaks. Other than that it would be potentail failure of any non compatible rubber or plastic components in the fuel system. Ethanol resistant carburetor floats are now available from SU.

[cornishman]

Re the petseal flaking off ,there is an ad in this months classic bike from Draganfly advertising an ethanol resistant tank sealing fluid may help a few people dave

[commando-rotary]

There is a tank sealant by the name of KREEM and is imported from the states by ZODIAC it's in their catalogue p/n 232020 I have used it in several bikes over the last 3 years and had no problems (they've had ethanol in the states for years). There's a list of agents on zodiac's website it's usually a harley dealership. Hope this helps, there's nothing worse than the tank liner melted by the fuel then clogging absolutely everything.DG

[johnbirchjar]

Hi Guys,having an aluminium tank on the Classic I thought I was safe from the ethanol curse,but it appears not,has anybody had their carb floats rot? or fuel pipes?or inline filters?is nothing safe from this ghastly stuff?J.B.

[rjg30091982]

Personally i think in the UK companies have been slow to look into different materials that are ethanol proof, this isnt a new problem in america they have a higher percentage of Ethanol in fuel and my girlfriend has a car in Brazil that can run on petrol or ethanol which they sell at half the price over their at every petrol station.short term there will be teething problems but long term i can't see any problems. Companies will slowly produce ethanol proof materials for carbs and fuel lines. To save deposits from the materials gunging up the carbs if your going to leave your bike for a long period run the bike dry and drain the fuel this will stop any pet seal or rubber deposits eaten by the fuel causing problems to your carbs. similarly a low micron filter will work as well say 5 or 10 micron.its a similar problem in the Merchant navy with heavy fuel oil and Marine gas oil, you use heavy fuel on an engine and its fine, switch to marine gas and it'll work like ethanol and eat seals and clean the heavy fuel off everything and leak out everywhere!I can't see ethanol being any different to the panic caused by removing 4 star! i've never had hardened valve seats to use unleaded and i've stripped my commando after 20 years on unleaded and there is no damage at all to the seats!

[FloridaMike]

Ethanol is a pain in the (you name it). Worst idea of a collection of bad ideas - utter disaster unless you drive a newish car, preferably a generic Japanese sedan, basically a rolling toaster (appliance).Even Al Gore (who tells us he invented the internet) now admits that ethanol isn't worth the trouble - but we'll still have it because of subsidies paid to farmers to turn corn into fuel instead of food.It absorbs water like crazy and then degrades and turns to glop (technical term) in a matter of 60 days. If you don't use the bike, you MUST drain the tank, carbs and fuel lines or you will be doing a carb rebuild and complete fuel system cleaning on a bi-monthly basis. Seasonal equipment (lawn mowers, boat engines) are especially affected, the boat guys are REALLY unhappy with ethanol.Ethanol also attacks polyester resin in fiberglass - the tank slowly disintegrates from the inside. Kreem and other coatings aren't the cure, they sometimes have pinholes and the ethanol can get to the fiberglass that way. The absorbed water in the ethanol will rust metal fuel tanks as well, even above the level of the gas.Ethanol dissolves plastic and composition carb floats, various formulations of rubber O rings, and the absorbed water will attack aluminum fuel lines if there is a "low point" which isn't drained completely.The boat guys here have found sources of non-ethanol fuel, many marinas sell it. It is a little more expensive than ethanol gas, but well worth the difference in far fewer hassles. I can use non-ethanol gas in my airplane (or 100LL, which is much more expensive) so I have started to visit the local marina dragging around several 20 liter gas cans - and you KNOW that's real safe . . . and it smells bad.Badbadbadbad X 10 ^ 10th power. I hate it, you will too. There's even a class action suit in the works from the boating community which has gotten tired of replacing blown up motors.Keep the tank and fuel system empty and dry if the vehicle isn't being used regularly.Expect to change various O rings and gaskets for ethanol-tolerant parts, if they are available. Don't forget the gas cap gasket!Same goes for carb floats, plastic tipped float needle valves, fuel taps with rubber or plastic parts in them.Expect to find glop in the various tiny orifices and passages in the carbs if the vehicle isn't run for a month or so. The longer it sits, the worse it gets. The glop hardens, too and is then almost impossible to remove. This crud kills electric fuel pumps too. (ask me how I know these things . . . )Aluminum fuel lines may need to be replaced with stainless steel.Fiberglass tanks are a problem, sealants don't always work, the boating guys are furious about it because many boats have fiberglass fuel tanks molded in as part of the hull, and they are getting stuck with huge repair bills when the fuel system clogs and the tanks leak like soggy sponges (real safe, too!)Find a source of non-ethanol polluted fuel, and stay on good terms with them!!!!There's a website over here which lists all the sources of non-ethanol fuel nationwide. It is growing every day - you might think about doing the same in Fair Albion and for Euroland.Best Regards,Florida Mike(Every damn thing I have gets indigestion from ethanol fuel - except my boring Honda Accord!)

[commando-rotary]

Those of you that are in the VMCC will have read that TOTAL say that there is no ethanol in their unleaded and that is set to last at least until july in the standard grade, and their premium will always be ethanol free?D G

[johnbirchjar]

Hi Guys,Looks like I will have to use TOTAL fuel then,and it may well be a real pain looking for Total garages when on a long run,good hunting,J.B.

[Ian]

OK, we now know that Total regular is OK for now, and their premium always will be (for now at least) free of ethanol.Do we know what other petrols are ethanol-free? How can we tell?I just put fuel in my car at Tesco and asked if it had ethanol in it and the numpty on the minimum wage looked at me like I was speaking Klingon!

[rjg30091982]

Re Total fuels,where can this be found? i've checked TOTAL's website and it doesnt say anything about ethanol free fuel which you'd think would be a high priority???not saying it isn't true but where is the written conformation???Russ

[commando-rotary]

Hi Guy, If you know anyone in the vintage motorcycle club there were a lot of letters in the last issue about this subject and some of them seem to be well informed. My point was that assuming it is true then if we buy their fuel and support them where possible, maybe that will pressure their competitors a little. As to finding total stations they are listed on the internet.regards D G

[Dell Boy]

Our branch secretary works for Total so I shall ask him. He has told me that Total are trying very hard to sell there business in the U.K. so it will at sometime be owned by A.N. Other who may change the fuel spec.Derek.

[johnbirchjar]

Hi guys,I contacted the customer care P.R. officer for Total fuels and she informed me that,(and I quote,) "Because of government legislation they could not garranty that ANY of their fuel was ethanol free" un quote,so there we are then,back to square one,use our bikes regularly,(once a week?)or drain the fuel tank and system,I tend to use my bike pretty regularly anyway,so lets hope this is sufficiant to keep the ethanol curse at bay,take care,regards,J.B.

[rjg30091982]

Cheers JB, i thought as much!!! thanks for the conformation! best i go buy some more seals!!!!

[Dell Boy]

Spoke to Mal who works for TOTAL & he says there is 5% ethanol in there petrol but it is refined in this country so does not have as many other chemicals in that they add to petrol on the continent. A lot of supermarkets import continental petrol.General discussion came up with the consensus that we all preferred ESSO over other brands.I put very cheap Benzine in my Dominator in Germany & I believe that was what caused piston crown collapse as well as the excessive heat & steep mountain passes I was pulling up.After rebuild I used Shell racing fuel bought at the pumps & that was very good. It is 100 octane.Derek.

[johnbirchjar]

To add further to confusion,I spoke to my local "auto parts supply" man and he was of the oppinion that ALL moddern flexable fuel lines and in-line filters are ethanol proof or it would be illegal to sell them,(E.U.regs and all that) do's he have a point?J.B.

[FloridaMike]

Local Auto Parts Man . . .Perhaps (and only perhaps) the fuel lines and filters are ethanol proof, but that doesn't help the carb floats, gaskets, O-rings, fiberglass fuel tank and so forth. My experience with most local auto parts guys is that they usually don't even know enough to be dangerous. YMMV, but I'd be really, really, really reluctant to bank on anything these guys say.I had one tell me that he was going to put a solar cell (one) on the roof of his car and convert it to electric power. (Ohm's law, izzat a new TV show?) For most of them, if it isn't in their computer, it doesn't exist. I hate to be pessimistic, but sometimes I think they are really only there to prevent customers from walking off with the inventory. The more positive they are about something ("Its' the LAW!!!!") the less likely they are to be correct.I've had a service manager of one national chain advise me that front wheel drive cars don't have differentials. I made him repeat the statement because I couldn't believe what I was hearing. He did. I asked him if he knew what a differential was and what it did, and he was honest and said no. (There was hope for him, he knew when he was in over his head.)I make it a policy not to argue with these guys, there's no point. I just smile nicely and go on my way.Best Regards,FloridaMike

[johnbirchjar]

Hi Mike, I expect you pessimism is well founded,but I find that my local auto parts man quite knowlegable,but I shall ere on the side of caution and drain the entire system if I am not using the bike for a couple of weeks or more,regards,J.B.