Classic No11 on ebay

[mickm]

Classic No11 on Ebay interestingly had NO bidders. It looks very nice BUT NOT Mollied. Not suprised it didn't sell he wanted £9000 for a machine that needs stripping before using!

[Joe]

Hello Mick, I saw that on ebay and also thought it was a few quid. A very nice bike and probably worth it as classic bike prices seem to be on the increase. Good news for us then. Regards, Joe.

[Interpol2471]

Why did it need stripping before using?There are a number of us using bikes which are not moly'd and some with high mileages and no problems. I checked my bike recently with a high quality endoscope and I have no marking at all on my side plates and I use my bike every week during the proper weather and store full of 2T during the winter.If it starts to fail recover the plates if not use it... BUT I am sure others will say otherwise.

[site admin]

£9000 is exactly six times more than I paid for our first house.I must be getting old...Graham

[Interpol2471]

Or don't live close to London

[site admin]

Air cooled endplates are cast using an alloy that can withstand some pretty serious abuse, certainly a good deal more resilient than the much softer water cooled endplates.A good running air-cooled may not need moly coating. BUT!! All water cooled engines are cast using a different alloy, it's softer and smears much more often. Just my opinion. But I have seen over 80% of all Rotarys made...Graham.

[whiffling clara]

Sorry graham you are wrong on this. Air cooled and water cooled end plates are cast using the same material.

[Richard Negus]

BS1490 LM13TF to be precide. A high silicon (10 - 13%) fully heat treated aluminium alloy with hardness in the 100 - 150 Brinell range, typically used in the manufacture of pistons due to its relatively low expansion rate.All Norton rotary motorcycle end plates were made from this and had the working faces etched with sodium hydroxide to remove the aluminium and leave a wear-resisting (ha!) silicon surface.On the other hand, all aero end plates made by Mid-West Engines, later Austro Engine GmbH, used conventional LM25TF alloy which only has around 7% silicon and is softer, circa 100 Brinell. But then, all their plates had full-face moly from new so the hardness or otherwise of the casting was relatively unimportant.

[Malc]

Just a thought as I am with Graham on the amount of air cooled that dont smear compared to the amount of water cooled that do;ie none of Derbyshire air cooled smeared but all but one water cooled did, often many times.As one of the main differences between the two engines is the running tolerances between rotors and end plates, were the air cooled rotor tolerances ever used in the water cooled bikes? OR if Mid West engines that are fully molyd dont smear due to running constant eng speed and temp, is it the latter that is likely to be the major culprit of smearing on the bike engines.I have still seen too many molyd engines that have smeared so tend to run un-molyd air cooled until they need attention.Malc

[Dell Boy]

I have to disagree with you Malcom. The ex Derbyshire police Interpol was smeared when I bought it in 1988. I think it had about 46,000 on the clock from memory. I had got it in effect, direct from the police but through another party. It was YCH110 Y. I think that was the reg.Derek F.

[Malc]

Hi Dell Boy,Ych 110Y had already been back to the factory with engine problems, twice. In Nov 1983 at approx 7,000 miles then again in Oct 1984 when it came in 'ringing' as a broken housing stud was hitting the back of the flywheel. After this it was converted to twin rotor idle and the 6mm studs replaced with 1/4 inch studs. This was at 25,000 miles.It was noted in my bookthat the engine became rough, especially from low rpm at 36,000 miles in Feb 86. April 86 and it was getting harder to start and had to increase tick-over but had been run until very hot to keep lights working at an emergency (I was told).A common problem was that the rotor shafts 'grew a few tenths' as they put it at the factory. This caused problems with tick over when combined with sticking seals which all the air cooled suffered from unless thrashed. Often it would be a case of stripping to find the side seals a but gummed up and tight rotor bearings also carboned up. Another trip to the factory, sit in my usual chair with the service dept lads and wait for shaft to acclimatize so as could be measured with air guage to see how many 'tenths' (of a thou) needed to come out of the rotor. New bearings and a set of springs under the seals and back together but never had to have any plates re-ground due to smearing. It was almost a bit of a joke, as other forces air cooled bikes smeared, Derbyshire were lucky perhaps OR very unlucky with the Commanders of which one, smeared 7 times.Ych 110Y was taken out of service due to engine noise as noted in my book and was double checked by Norton engineer in May 87. The bike could not be decommissioned until Nov that year so had to run but only manages another 80 miles before preparing for sale at 46,520 miles.I dont think any of them reached 45,000 without being stripped which was a shame because as Richard has said somewhere, these bikes were hand built with care and the vast majority of the workforce, and I came into contact with many, were enthusiastic about the bikes.Malc

[johnbirchjar]

When my Classic was put into Malc's tender loving care for repair (at 57,510 miles) I was with him when we pulled the engine apart,and if memory serves his comment at the time was,"Bloody hell,I'm surprised it ran at all" ,or words to that effect,"This is one of the most coked up engines I have ever seen", in any event the engine was completly knackered,ALL plates,both L/R and Centre had to replaced,(I didn't even know there WERE centre plates on rotories )along with just about everything else,(I think the only items not replaced were one of the chambers and the crank shaft,) In any event,listening to other owners,it would appear that water cooled rotories do many more miles than air cooled before needing major engine repairs,ride safe,J.B.