I have a 1990 Commander, apologies for the long-winded explanation:
The problem
With the bike stationary, when I switch on the ignition and turn on the right indicator nothing happens. Switch off the ignition and turn it back on and then turn on the left indicator first and it flashes and if I then move the switch over to the right the right it flashes. In fact once I have switched on the left indicator I can then turn on the right indicator either by moving the switch straight across or pressing the cancel function on the switch and then switching on the right indicator. When the bike is stationary the indicators on either side continue to flash until I press the cancel function on the handlebar switch.
On the move the left indicator works perfectly and cancels after 13 flashes. After the left has been activated I can then switch over to the right. However the right indicator will only flash for the remainder of the 13 flashes eg if the left has flashed 10 times, the right will then work for 3 flashes. After a short period of non-use of the indicators (> 1 min, or a few hundred yards) the right indicator does not work If I select it first, but the left does and once the left has been activated the right will flash for the remaining number of the 13 flashes.
Background
When I bought the bike 18 months ago the self-cancelling function on the move never worked but the flasher unit did so I used the indicators in "dumb" mode, ie they would continue to flash when stationary or on the move and I used the cancel function on the handlebar switch. After 18 months the flasher unit eventually malfunctioned and when I went to replace it I noticed it was a non-standard flasher unit (it only had two spades instead of three) and so there was no connection between the flasher unit and the self-cancelling unit. After replacing the flasher unit with a brand new unit I had the symptoms described above. I then thought there may be a problem with the self-cancelling unit, so replaced it with a second-hand unit from a Yamaha because I couldn't find a new one. This resulted in no change in the indicator function, so I deduced that the original self-cancelling unit was not faulty. I've taken the handlebar switch apart and cleaned up the internals but that made no difference.
I'm all out of ideas and hope the wider and smarter community might be able to offer some suggestions. Please feel free to call me if you prefer (07812 332860) otherwise I look forward to comments on this forum.
Philip
Indicator problem.
-
PhilipFleming588
- moderator
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:25 am
- Location: Basingstoke, UK
-
johnbirchjar
- moderator
- Posts: 1633
- Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:20 pm
Re: Indicator problem.
How about doing away completely with the self canceling unit(sounds like a load of grief to me)and get hold of another flasher unit,just because it's new dos'nt mean it can't be faulty(speaking from experience 
)J.B.
)J.B.-
PhilipFleming588
- moderator
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:25 am
- Location: Basingstoke, UK
Re: Indicator problem.
Hi John,
If nobody can come up with a diagnosis/solution I might take your advice, and that would replicate how the indicator system was set up before the flasher unit failed. But it would be a pity not to be able to use the very convenient self-cancelling function.
Regards
Philip
If nobody can come up with a diagnosis/solution I might take your advice, and that would replicate how the indicator system was set up before the flasher unit failed. But it would be a pity not to be able to use the very convenient self-cancelling function.
Regards
Philip
-
Anthony Duffield
- Site Admin
- Posts: 300
- Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:13 am
Re: Indicator problem.
Phillip,
Do you have a wiring diagram? if so you will note that item 58 flasher relay has three connections not two as your bike.
My advice would be to reinstate the system as per the drawing retaining the flasher cancel unit, which works OK on my Commander
Tony
Do you have a wiring diagram? if so you will note that item 58 flasher relay has three connections not two as your bike.
My advice would be to reinstate the system as per the drawing retaining the flasher cancel unit, which works OK on my Commander
Tony
-
PhilipFleming588
- moderator
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:25 am
- Location: Basingstoke, UK
Re: Indicator problem.
Hi Tony,
I do have a wiring diagram. Perhaps I was not clear in my long-winded explanation, but the flasher unit that failed only had two spade connectors and the new replacement unit has three spade connectors as it should be. So I have tried to reinstate the system as it would have left the factory but I still have the problem.
FYI the spade that was missing on the failed flasher would have connected to the Yellow/Green wire that connects the flasher unit to the self-cancelling unit.
Philip
I do have a wiring diagram. Perhaps I was not clear in my long-winded explanation, but the flasher unit that failed only had two spade connectors and the new replacement unit has three spade connectors as it should be. So I have tried to reinstate the system as it would have left the factory but I still have the problem.
FYI the spade that was missing on the failed flasher would have connected to the Yellow/Green wire that connects the flasher unit to the self-cancelling unit.
Philip
Re: Indicator problem.
Assuming the Commander uses the same indicator control set up as the XJ900 I did a Google search for "XJ900 Yamaha self cancelling unit circuit" and came up with some discussions on the Yamaha XJ Motorcycle Forum that might be relevant.
Some useful chat about how that self cancelling circuit actually works, someone at Yamaha drinking a bit too much of the "look how clever I am
-aid" methinks, a picture of the innards and pdf of the circuit. Need to sign up to download the picture at useful size and the circuit diagram tho'. Judging by the picture its old school discrete components so fixable.
https://xjbikes.com/forums/threads/turn ... od.127930/ picture and circuit at the bottom.
https://xjbikes.com/forums/threads/yama ... rs.113127/
Consensus seems to be that the beast needs good quality contacts in the switch if its to behave properly. Dirty contacts can make it do odd things. According to that source there is a reed switch sensor in the speedo to do the distance measuring side which can sometimes have issues.
I guess if all else fails you could fit an STS self cancelling unit. Which really does sound too clever by half.
Clive
Some useful chat about how that self cancelling circuit actually works, someone at Yamaha drinking a bit too much of the "look how clever I am
-aid" methinks, a picture of the innards and pdf of the circuit. Need to sign up to download the picture at useful size and the circuit diagram tho'. Judging by the picture its old school discrete components so fixable.https://xjbikes.com/forums/threads/turn ... od.127930/ picture and circuit at the bottom.
https://xjbikes.com/forums/threads/yama ... rs.113127/
Consensus seems to be that the beast needs good quality contacts in the switch if its to behave properly. Dirty contacts can make it do odd things. According to that source there is a reed switch sensor in the speedo to do the distance measuring side which can sometimes have issues.
I guess if all else fails you could fit an STS self cancelling unit. Which really does sound too clever by half.
Clive
Re: Indicator problem.
3 rd result from my Google search
https://xjbikes.com/forums/threads/auto ... lem.24791/
We are only allowed two URL per post.
Clive
https://xjbikes.com/forums/threads/auto ... lem.24791/
We are only allowed two URL per post.
Clive
-
PhilipFleming588
- moderator
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:25 am
- Location: Basingstoke, UK
Re: Indicator problem.
Thanks Clive. It's amazing what you can find on the internet.
Will do further investigation (when it's warm enough to go into the garage) and report back.
Philip
Will do further investigation (when it's warm enough to go into the garage) and report back.
Philip
-
Anthony Duffield
- Site Admin
- Posts: 300
- Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:13 am
Re: Indicator problem.
Phillip,
As your base line the best thing to do is return everything back to original and then start checking connections and components as you fault find.
You have checked the switch on the handle bar so if its OK you can rule that out, check all the plugs shown on the drawing and the earth connection.
As the lamps worked OK before and you have not fitted LED's rule them out.
I was aware of the reed switch in the speedo, its not going to be easy checking it for the correct operation and I'm not sure how it works i.e. NO or NC, you could make a test by first shorting it out then disconnecting it.
The last step is to obtain a new and correct flasher relay and cancelling unit it is important that the relays are known to work properly, alternatively send me your relays and I will try them in my Commander, PM me or call on 07900278151 if you want me to try them.
Tony
As your base line the best thing to do is return everything back to original and then start checking connections and components as you fault find.
You have checked the switch on the handle bar so if its OK you can rule that out, check all the plugs shown on the drawing and the earth connection.
As the lamps worked OK before and you have not fitted LED's rule them out.
I was aware of the reed switch in the speedo, its not going to be easy checking it for the correct operation and I'm not sure how it works i.e. NO or NC, you could make a test by first shorting it out then disconnecting it.
The last step is to obtain a new and correct flasher relay and cancelling unit it is important that the relays are known to work properly, alternatively send me your relays and I will try them in my Commander, PM me or call on 07900278151 if you want me to try them.
Tony