Upper Cylinder Lubricant

[johnbirchjar]

Hi guys,those of us af a "certain age" will remember in the days before un-leaded petrol, that garage forcourts suplied "REDEX" as a petrol additive to help prevent "carbon buildup" in cylinder heads,(and as "allways skint" teenagers,we would also use this as a cheap way to do a "de-coke" on our bikes,get a buddy to ride "shotgun",blast off down the road and get him to squirt Redex down the carb,thus removing unwanted carbon, copious amounts of smoke though )What started this train of thought was my "hot running"Classic,and the problem seems to be "carbon buildup" in the side seals or apex seals or both,so would a few shots of Redex down the air intake loosen the carbon,and save me the cost of an engine strip (I can hear cries of horror )ride safe,J.B.

[Dell Boy]

Just dosed the red one with Redex petrol treatment this morning John as its running a bit rough on one chamber so suspect the carb is a bit gunged.When I got my first air cooled Norton in 1988 most conversations with the factory ended with "Try giving it a good shot of Redex" as being the cure all. Sadly, I discovered, this did not repair smeared side plates. Only wodges of money every 28,000 miles effected a cure for that until they started molying.Wilkinsons are selling Redex very cheap at present. Some deals on ebay but be carefull to compare bottle sizes as some are small. They dont lable it as U.C.L. any more.In the "Good Old Days" you could buy a shot for a shilling from a dispenser on the forecourt as well as two stroke mix oil from another dispenser.You didn`t make club night? Only 8 of us there & me the only one on a bike.I took the red rotary due to the freezing weather. Gritters were out but I saw no ice though the bike was frosted when I came to leave.Derek F.

[rustynuts]

If your carbon build up is anything like mine was, using Redex would be like p1ssing into the wind. I'll wager that your only way forward is a strip down followed by a long soak in a bucket of caustic soda solution and a good wire brushing.

[Richard Negus]

a strip down followed by a long soak in a bucket of caustic soda solution and a good wire brushing.

In the privacy of your own home, I trust?

[johnbirchjar]

Nice one Richard ,R/nuts,how many miles had your IP2 done before a stripdown was required? J.B.

[johnbirchjar]

Sorry I missed club night Del,but I'v been "house bound" with some sort of "tummy bug" of the most embarassing kind ,hopefuly it won't last for much longer,J.B.

[rustynuts]

In the privacy of your own home, I trust?

I should hope so. Then you might even get to handle his parts, just like you did with mine

Nice one Richard ,R/nuts,how many miles had your IP2 done before a stripdown was required? J.B.

Quite a few but I am not sure exactly how many. It was in service with Durham Police for six years and looked like it had been well used by its other three previous owners. It shows 60K on the clock, so it could be 160K or 260k or something else entirely.

[Richard Negus]

Then you might even get to handle his parts, just like you did with mine .

I offered the same attention to John, but seems he's more a do-it-yourself sort of chap and declined.

[johnbirchjar]

So,anywhere between 150 & 250k then, quite a few more than my bike,(no wonder you had to resort to costic soda and a wire brush )I think I'll give the old Redex a try,and of course I will report on the result,J.B.

[Dell Boy]

The advice I got from Shenstone in the 80`s John was to pour Redex into the chambers via the plug holes, rotate the engine to distribute it, & leave it to soak overnight to soften the carbon.Wether this is good practice now or if Redex has the same properties it had then & would still be effective at softening the carbon I dont know.Derek F.

[johnbirchjar]

Thanks for that Del,(I was wondering what method to use )any idea of what sort of quantity? I had a bit of a surf and came across this "Carbon & Laquer Removing Agent",(ArchiolAR6400)manufactured by an American company,but sold over here by an outfit based in Norfolk,raaaather expensive!! (compared to Holts & Wynns)but they are doing a "1/2 price promotion" so I've sent off for a bottle,(450cls £9-23 inc p&p)should be here Mon/Tues,I will report results.Am pleased to report that I am no longer"house bound") .Now am I correct in assuming that "carbon build up" is caused by (a) incorrect oil pump meetering (b)lots of slow riding (c) crappy petrol (b****y Ethanol) (d)Carbs out of sink,(e) the "lot" of air cooled rotories,or a combination of all five?, or perhaps it's the Rotella oil? has anyone run an aircooled on Silkolene long enough to do a comparrison?ride safe,J.B.

[Interpol2471]

As stated before I use a mixture of Comp2 and Redex and rotate the engine backwards a few turns every winter, and does it smoke in the spring lolIf it works great but it keep me happy anyway

[johnbirchjar]

Thanks for the tip, I don't lay my bike up for the winter,but I will definately give your "method" a go every once in a while,rgds,J.B.

[johnbirchjar]

OK guys,the "new improved" UCL,arrived this morning,so what sort of quantities being poured down the plug holes are we talking about?answeres a.s.a.p. please,rgds,J.B.

[Dell Boy]

I think I put about 50 millilitres in each chamber John but I didn`t do it as an exact science & I dont think it is too critical. The more you put in ,the more smoke you get. A syringe or turkey baster are good for squirting it in.I have read good things about the american product so will be interested to hear of the outcome.Derek F.

[johnbirchjar]

Thanks for that Del,I'll start the process tomorrow(fingers crossed I get the required result)rgds,J.B.

[Interpol2471]

Yep I agree I use a 100ml syringe and give it a good squirt in each plug hole while rotating the wheel backwards to hopefully get the magic mixture equally around the rotor.

[johnbirchjar]

Hi 2471,why mix Comp2 in with the Redex?,(I havn't got any Comp2,will Rotella do?)answer a.s.a.p please,rgds,J.B.

[Interpol2471]

John I mix the two together when I am putting the bike up for the winter as hopefully the Redex hepls to soften any build up from use and the Comp2 sticks to all surfaces to stop any internal corrosion or sticking. I then weekly give the back wheel a spin backwards while I am passing to keep everything free while it is parked up.If you use Rotella fine but I am sold on Comp2 after stripping a 2 stroke engine down and seeing how well the Comp2 stayed on the bearing surfaces. If you are just freeing up Redex on it's own should be fine but as above the more Redex the more smoke later on. I also use Activ8 at present until it runs out (quite expensive) and I found after using it my idle went up and I had to adjust I guess due to the reduced internal friction on the side plates?

[johnbirchjar]

Well guys,today was the big day,spun the old girl over with the plugs removed to get rid of as much UCL as poss;fired her up,(not as much smoke as I expected,)run her for a bit to clear her out,leathers on,blast off down a local duel-carrigeway,result?nothing had changed ,temp; still a tad under 150,yours truly not a happy biker ,I will give the old UCL one more try,(leave it for about a week) needless to say I will report anon,ride safe,J.B.

[Malc]

Dont want to upset you john, but UCL wont repair an engine problem.The factory at Shenstone would tell me to put UCL down the plug holes every time I would ring with another engine problem during the 3 year warranty on the police bikes. After following their advice on several occasions to use the UCL with only one very temporay and minor improvement I stopped wasting my time and just stripped the engines. Sticking side seals on air cooled was the main problem, water cooled had always smeared. These were non molyd engines at the time.So I think you will have to bite the bullet sooner rather than later!Malc

[johnbirchjar]

Thanks Malc,you have confirmed Richards diagnosis that my problem was probably side seals,and as you say,"bite the bullet" and either take the engine to Richard or Graham, or " 'ave a go meself" I shall ponder the alternatives at length and decide what to do once the engine is out.P.S.How have you been keeping?same as before,good days and bad days?look after yourself,rgds,J.B.