KoKusan VRs,

[johnbirchjar]

Hi guys, I have been having a bit of a surf, and discovered that KoKusan(the same company that manufacture the alternators fited to our bikes)also make VRs,and seeing that the alternators are vertually bomb proof,I wondered if there VRs would be the same,anyone had any dealings with them?(I think that KTM & Aprilla fit them) J.B.

[rustynuts]

How about a Shindengen rectifier/regulator. They are standard fit on just about all Jap bikes I believe and also on modern Triumphs. Just about any one off a large modern bike should do as our alternator outputs are puny compared to modern machines. I got a second hand one on fleabay for a fiver (off a Diversion I seem to remember). The ultimate way to to go allegedly is to fit a Shendengen unit using MOSFETs, rather than SCRs which are the traditional semiconductor devices used in rectifier/regulator units. They are more efficient, hence run cooler so less likely to get cooked due to being located somewhere with poor airflow, such as behind a side panel. They are identified by their model number beginning with FH, whereas the normal SCR ones begin with SH. Unfortunately when they come up second hand on ebay they are quite expensive as they are a popular conversion.

[johnbirchjar]

Thanks for that Rustynuts?(hopefully, on your various machines ) I shall invstigate further,J.B.

[johnbirchjar]

Having investigated further,like the man said,used Shindengen's are a bit thin on the ground, and new ones are best part of a hundred quid,(ouch!) my next question is,our alternators knock out 220w,so if I fit a VR that copes with say 250w would that not have to work as hard and stay cooler?(I am assuming that VR's pack up because they get hot)also,do VR's deteriate when not used for years?the reason I ask this is because my Classic stood for about 11 years before being used regularly,and the original Boyer VR packed up after only 17,500 miles,the next one(a Petronics)was good for about 33,000 miles before it too packed up,the latest one (an Electrex World )has lasted a whole 2,500 miles ,(needless to say that's will be returned soon as I buy a replacment,)I await for guidance,ride safe,J.B.

[Richard Negus]

John,See if you can get Electrex to tell you exactly what went wrong with their regulator.I've often found that regulator 'problems' are more often than not the result of dodgy connections.The old-fashioned Lucas bullet connectors between generator and regulator are particularly bad in this respect; just changing them for Japanese types on mine fixed all the charging problems. Blade connectors overheating on the Commander, and mostly at the generator/loom connector, are also the result of corrosion and high resistance in the connector.

[johnbirchjar]

Thanks for the tip Richard,I will check the connections on the VR, (allthough I doubt corrosion will be a cause,everything has only been re-connected two and a half thousand miles ago ,)but I will check them all again.What are "Japanes" connectors?rgds,J.B.

[Richard Negus]

John,Old-style Lucas bullets are often only crimped on to the wire - and that was 30 years ago so there is a strong possibility of corrosion, and high resistance, within the bullet and between bullet and sleeve connector.Japanese connectors are the type, originally fitted to bikes from Japan but now universal, used to connect single wires together. They have a transparent plastic sleeve on both male and female parts offering a degree of water/salt protection (but not 100% waterproof).I often crimp AND solder to be sure of making a good connection to the wires.

Japanese connectors.jpg

These are examples of male, female and double connectors that I fitted to a Sparkrite regulator; the original Lucas bullets were total sh1t

[johnbirchjar]

Ah,ha,so thats what those connectors are called. Went out this morning and checked all the connectors going to the VR,all nice and corrosion free,(as I expected) pulled them all appart and pushed them firmly back together again,fired the old girl up, and whalla one more extra volt ,now (13.2 at 3,000 revs with all the lights on,)hopefully the status quo will be maintained.I think I have been deluding myself re;"Sooty air transfere ports" the old girl seemed to take ages before the other pot chimed in when I fired her up this morning, (at least 5 secs )are you still using your old mobile number Richard,?if not my land line is 01268 753362 and perhaps we can sort something out so my bike is ready for next "season".Hope to hear from you soon, ride safe,J.B.

[Dell Boy]

I have a collection of 5 used Shending voltage regulators you can borrow to play with if you want John.Lights on & engine running I get anything from 11.9 to 13.5 volts but generally 12.2volts with no sign of my 5 year old batteries not being sufficiently charged. I.e, it starts instantly.The bike itself has done 96,000 miles.The bike will have been stood for 5 days in the cold when I next start it so that will be a good test of battery condition.I think the low readings I get are because the batteries are holding a full charge & the original type regulator is dumping the excess voltage. Only time will tell.Derek F.

[johnbirchjar]

Thanks for the offer of your Shendengens Dell. You may have a point re:"low voltage reading 'cos the battery is full" makes sence,I will soldier on with the currant encumbrant for a bit and see what happens,Hope to see you club night on the 5th,ride safe,J.B.

[Dell Boy]

Went & started Red Commander this evening after 5 days of standing in the cold.Turned it on & it showed 12 volts on the voltmeter.Hit the starter button & it fired up instantly so I am confidant that despite the low voltage readings all is well with the charging system.Cooling system is working well, 87 degrees at 4,500 revs.Gearbox is changing sweetly so all is well with the red one. Now to sort the grey one out!!See you monday John.Derek F.

[Mick Taylor]

For the Japanese type bullet connectors, Vehicle Wiring Products are a good source; they supply them in realistic numbers, not the extortionately expensive little packets containing just a few that seem to be available elsewhere.See here: http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/V ... ets.phpYou will need the sleeves and appropriate crimping tool, but they are very good quality.The Japanese style multi / block connectors are also available from VWP.......along with a complete catalogue of other useful parts if you haven't used them before.Mick.

[johnbirchjar]

Thanks for that Mike,I allready have quite a number of connectors of various types and sizes,+ quite a good crimper,went out and puchased a electric soldering iron yesterday,I will now spend a bit of time soldering connectors .Is the "size" of cable measured by the copper core or by the outside diameter?ride safe,J.B.

[FloridaMike]

Size of the wire is by measurement of the copper core, not the size of the insulation. Over the years, insulation has gotten thinner and thinner as well as more and more durable. Modern automotive insulation is PVC (Poly-vinyl-chloride), oil proof and completely waterproof. (PVC will melt and burn, however, so aircraft wire uses a different and fireproof insulation.)A fully charged wet cell battery should measure more than 12 volts - each cell is 2.2 volts, so the six cells, which are wired in series, should read 13.2 volts. If you are only getting 12 volts after the battery is fully charged, you may have a bad cell (the idea of lower voltage because the battery is full isn't correct).Charging a lead-acid battery takes MORE than 2.2 volts per cell, so the charge voltage should be about 14.5 volts. Measure this across the battery terminals with the engine running at say 3,000 rpm. If you are not getting 14.5 volts and you KNOW the battery is fully charged and able to hold a charge, look for a problem in the rectifier (one bad diode), corroded connections, or perhaps one winding open in the armature of the alternator.Rectifier test - use ohmmeter, check EACH diode, continuity with leads connected one way, no continuity with them reversed. Don't bother measuring from + to - or from yellow to yellow (or whatever the AC connections are) that tells you nothing. If one diode fails the test, replace the rectifier.Armatures are wired either as delta or wye. To test a wye wound alternator, continuity between all wires, no continuity to the laminations. Delta connected alternators need the SAME reading between each pair of wires and (again) no continuity to the laminations. The reason you must have a specific reading, not just "continuity", is that in a delta connected armature, you can have an open winding but it will still read continuity because ohmmeter is reading through the two good coils (in series). All three readings should be identical (a couple of ohms), if any one reading is double the other two, there is an open coil.Zener diodes are not adjustable, if out of spec, replace. If the zener is shorted, the battery won't charge and you'll see melted wires. If the zener is open, you'll blow a LOT of bulbs and boil the battery since the alternator output is unregulated. New zeners get a dab of special heat conductive grease (Radio Shack, Maplins, etc.) under them and the nut is tightened to no more than 24-28 ft/lbs but I usually stop at about 20 or 22 because I don't want to break off the mounting stud and ruin the device.If you have an aftermarket "integrated" regulator, all bets are off because these are often potted in epoxy and the components can't be individually tested, if it isn't right, you just replace it - easy but expensive.One thing you might want to check is the wiring of the light switch. Some three-wire alternators have extra coils that are "switched in" when the lights are on to provide the extra current needed. If the alternator passes the test above (continuity all wires no shorts to ground) and the battery still goes dead at night, see that the light switch is in fact adding the lighting coils to the system when the lights are on.Sorry I'm late to the party, I was at the Daytona eBike Grand Prix watching the electric Brammo and the electric Munch turn sub-two minute lap times (3.56 miles per lap), at speeds up to - wait for it! - 171 miles per hour. Man, that's fast, and the bikes are almost silent, all you hear is a whoosh of wind noise and some chain noise as they blast by. I was in the pits working with the Munch team - the future is almost here, guys, and it won't include gasoline once the battery capacity and charging time problems are solved - and they will be.I don't impress easily, but this stuff just blew me away. In 20 years people will look at gasoline powered cars and bikes and say "people rode around in those things?" We'll look at gas engines the way we look at steam engines today - fascinating antique curiosities, nothing more.Best,Mike

[johnbirchjar]

Hi Mike,Thanks for the info:most informative,(sounds like you had a great time at the bike meet.)To my mind one of the biggest drawbacks with electric vehicles is THEY ARE TO DAMN QUIET ,car drivers can HEAR bikes when we filter through traffic,(especialy the big old twins)and still the dozy b******s pull out on us!! so what chance will bikers have in the future,(legislate so they make a noise )there,that should spark off a bit of a debate, ride safe,J.B.

[FloridaMike]

Yes, you are absolutely correct - they are TOO quiet for public roads to the point of being dangerous.I rode two different electric bikes around in the pits (one had the rake angle wrong and kept trying to fall over, and the other had a throttle which was on/off and very difficult to control, these are minor quibbles) but they are almost completely silent - I found myself coming up behind people who were walking in the area and simply didn't know I was there, some of them decided that right then was a good time to change direction and cross directly in front of me.Fortunately, I had checked out the brakes FIRST so I didn't knock anyone down.I used to think that "they are too quiet" was just sour grapes whinging, but now I know that there IS also a basis in fact for this complaint, there is no audible warning to pedestrians that they are about to be run over. In public, it will be even worse - these things will be inaudible to most people anyway, and if the pedestrians are yakking on their phones or listening to music with ear buds, they are going to get hit.Maybe there's a market for an on-board sound system - "Make your 1/2 hp electric moped sound like a Lamborghini!" Ring tones for your electric vehicle . . . I'll take the one that sounds like the F-16, please . . . oh, you're out of that? How about the Saturn 5 instead?

[FloridaMike]

P.S. - I was at the Cape and watched one of the Saturn 5 launches back when you could still get close to things there. We were about three miles from the pad - the damn thing was so loud it actually broke car windows! The AIR shook - people felt their internal organs moving, vibrating . . . unreal!Yeah, we really want that noise on every one of a bazillion crappy mopeds . . .

[johnbirchjar]

Commenting on the Saturn 5's noise,the loudest object I ever heard was at an air display way back in the late '70's,the comentator was saying "Now the Valcan Bomber will now approach in silent mode" which it did, all nice and quiet,then the pilot stood the old girl on her tail and lite the afterburners,the noise was something else!!the ground shook,car alarms going off all over the place,awesome (couldn't do it now," 'elf and safety" + some con artist would sue for "trauma") ride safe,J.B.

[Dell Boy]

I marshal at the T.T. & have seen the progress made with electric bikes for the last 5 years in the Zero Carbon class.They have gone from only a couple completing the lap with a best lap time of 83 m.p.h. to this year doing, I think, a best of 103 & about a dozen finishing the lap. I think the top speed was over 160!!As a marshall the lack of noise that normally gives a warning of a race machine approaching at high speed makes marshalling a bit more hazardous as the electric race bike just suddenly appears with a slight whirr & is gone.They definetly need a sound track of some sort. Maybe "Ride of the Valkyries"!!!!!Derek F.

[johnbirchjar]

The cannon in the 1812 overture?J.B.

[vontripper]

spitfire mk 9von

[rustynuts]

The cannon in the 1812 overture?J.B.

I remember a good few years ago there was a performance of the 1812 overture using the exhaust beat of a Panther as the cannon.