Classic Virgin

[Mick Taylor]

Well, I've taken the plunge and bought a Norton Classic and I need a bit of advice please. I hope to collect it at the weekend. When I went to see the bike it had been standing for ten years although the storage has been good (dry) as there is not a trace of corrosion anywhere, just a thin coating of dust.A new battery had been fitted and although the starter button refused to play, the engine spun up and started when the solenoid connections were bridged. The motor sounded good, very smooth, very responsive to throttle; it would run down to below 1,000rpm if held on the throttle but would not idle...it may not have got warm enough. After a couple of minutes it stopped responding to throttle and slowly died exactly as if it were fuel starvation.The other issue is the electrics; only one of the idiot lights worked, the centre red one in the lower line. The indicators lit up but didn't flash, the horn could just be heard attempting to work but didn't, the headlamp only worked when the 'pass' button was pressed, and I noticed that if I allowed it down to idle speed and then revved the engine the headlamp did not 'flare' at all, so I suspect it is not charging the battery.The last British bike I had was a Commando about 25 years ago and things like ballast resistors are totally alien to me. Any pointers regarding a sensible method of working through the electrics....particularly things that would not be obvious to someone fed a diet of Japanese electrics would be much appeciated.Mick Taylor.

[FloridaMike]

Congratulations on your find! We can't get these at all on this side of the pond because they don't meet all kinds of nonsense "safety" requirements.You're 100% correct about the battery not charging, and your test of "rev the engine and see if the headlight gets brighter" indicates this.The other symptoms (starter button NG, blinkers won't flash) tells me the new battery is only partially charged.Get the wiring diagram, and put the battery on a slow charge, no more than 1/10the ampere-hour rating. If it is a 15 A-H battery, charge at no more than 1.5 amps.After that, I'd wager all kinds of things will start to work properly - but you'll still need to address the no-charge issue. On a bike that has been stored for 10 years, dry or not, I'd start by checking for corroded connectors and perhaps an intermittent ignition switch - a shot of contact cleaner might just fix you right up. (Do all the other switches, too.)Electrons are electrons, they all work the same way no matter if they were generated in Birmingham or Yokohama. If you can fix Japanese electrics, the Inventor of Darkness (Lucas, don'tcha know?) holds no special terrors other than his reputation. Now if we were talking about a chain-driven mag-dyno, that's a different story, but we're not ;-)Best Regards,FloridaMike

[johnbirchjar]

Hi Mike,you said the Classic had been stored for ten years,had all the "Engine longterm storage instructions" been carried out before the old girl was laid up?even so, before you fired the old girl up did you squirt lots of oil in through the plug holes?turn the engine over slowly(in gear,turn the back wheel)do this for a while to get the oil over all the chamber internals,if not you may well have caused yourself a few problems,(I am speaking from bitter experiance )If "no" to any of the above DO NOT attempt to run the engine!!! and seek advice from those a lot more qualified than I,fingers crossed!!J.B.

[Mick Taylor]

Thank you for the replies, much appreciated. As regards the electrics I suspect it may have something to do with corrosion in a block connector...or something disconnected....or component failure or just poor earthing, but I guess I will just go through it with contact cleaner one piece at a time and hope one or two things spring to life and point me in the right direction. The battery is a brand new MotoBatt gel battery and it seemed to have a lot of power, so I suspect the problems are a little deeper, but it will certainly get charged first. I will replace the starter solenoid if I can get a reply from Norton Andover and buy a new ballast resistor and perhaps voltage regulator from Startright (thank heavens Startright are there) as this forum suggests they can be a source of trouble. I'm happy to take as much time as it needs as I would like to do the job once and be able to rely on the electrics. Incidentally, when the engine was first run the rev counter didn't work but when it was re started it sprang into life.....does that suggest anything?On the subject of starting after a long lay up....unfortunately I had no hand in the matter, when I got there the engine was warm. I think it unlikely that any special precautions were taken prior to lay up. That said, it started instantly (with the solenoid bridged) and produced a light smoky haze from the exhausts so I do know there is oil in there. The oil tank was full (same colour as Silkolene) and that is as far as I could go, what's done is done.I have an RE5 (lovely simple electrics) and I've been through the wake up procedure a few times with those. I do appreciate any pointers or suggestions as I clearly have some learning to do. Mick.

[gripper]

An easy way to test the output of the alternator is to get a standard 55/60w headlight bulb and wire the two filaments to come on together. Disconnect the three wires from the alternator then run the bike briefly, bridging 2 of the three wires in turn ie 1 to 2, 1 to 3, 2 to 3. you should see the bulb illuminate and get brighter with increasing revs. don't go too high as it will blow your new test tool. Provided the alternator is producing current and a similar amount of light your charging problems lie elsewhere. I have just fitted a Electrex regulator rectifier to my IP2 for about £70. It's supposedly made in Britain which is more than you can say for the Kokusan alternator. The starter button is suspect and relies on a crappy little spring if I remember correctly, worth a poke around in there. If it hasn't run for ten years the reason it was left was probably an electrical glitch that was beyond the previous owner.Enjoy

[FloridaMike]

Charge the battery before you buy a new starter solenoid. Sometimes just cycling the solenoid a few times will knock off any corrosion on the contacts and it will be fine. The starting current arcs across the contacts when you activate the solenoid, this blasts clean the contact surfaces (yeah, I know it is crude, but this isn't rocket science).Story about a starter solenoid . . .I was offered a ride in the back seat of a Saia Marchetti SF260 - basically a three seat Lamborghini with wings, super performance personal aircraft, the ONLY production piston engine aircraft that can do a loop from level flight (everyone else has to dive to get enough speed and momentum to make it around).Got to the airport, climbed in, ohboy ohboy ohboy, strapped down, hot diggety damn!!! . . . click . . . click . . . click.Mechanic said "you need a starter solenoid", so it was air freighted in from Italy, $1,200 for the part, $400 more for panic air freight (the airplane was from somewhere else, and the owner was stuck in a motel until it was fixed).Install new solenoid, hmm, Delco Remy box ($7.00 at local auto parts store) . . . click . . . click . . . click.Owner finally listened to me bitching about "did you charge the battery?" mostly to get me to shut up.Charge battery . . . master and mags on, hit starter button and ROAR!!!!!!!!And of course since he was three days late off he went and I never did get a ride in the damn airplane.Best Regards,FloridaMike

[Interpol2471]

As in another post Redex is a good start up softener also as well as Comp 2 and you will get used to the Rotary Rev counter syndrome There is a guy in London who repairs Veglia items and he says that the caps often leak and this is a cause of some of the issues.

[Mick Taylor]

Thank you for the replies, I have just booked transport for the bike and should get my hands on it next week, at which point I will start referring to the advice and experience on this forum.I had one piece of joy this morning though; I spoke to the guy at the bike shop who stored the bike for the owner, and I asked him what his start up procedure was after it's ten year lay up.He told me that since he knows nothing about these bikes he rang someone who does....Graham at Startright and followed his instructions to the letter.....so no dry start.....brilliant!The speedo repair guy in London is probably Peter Bond? I used to live a few miles down the road and he was doing this many years back, but I believe his range has extended vastly beyond the old style Brit bike clocks he used to do and he is now the Go To man for most gauge problems. That's a very useful reminder that he could work on these clocks, thank you.Thanks for the advice, I will put up a couple of photos if I can work out how to, once it gets here. Stand by for more questions once I start delving into it.Best............Mick.

[Mick Taylor]

I am missing one mirror on the Classic; they look a lot like period BMW mirrors such as the BMW K75 etc.Does anyone happen to know exactly what they are or a suitable substitute?Thanks.........Mick.

[johnbirchjar]

Hi Mike,Most fortuouse the "bike storer" phoning Graham,probably saved you a shed load of dosh ,also tried to axcess the e-mail you sent via the club forum,no joy, just my computer"freezing" so either "open message" on the club forum,e-mail direct,(johnbirch919@btinternet.com)or phone,01268 753362, ride safe,J.B.

[Interpol2471]

Yes just checked it was Peter Bond who helped me.

[Mick Taylor]

I went through the electrics from front to back, cleaning everything as I went, replacing some connectors and also renewing the R/R with an Electrex and the Ballast resistor which was literally crumbling.Florida Mike, you were spot on....with a fully charged battery, clean connections and one or two replacement parts, everything has come back to life. The formerly dead starter solenoid which would spin the starter easily but only when bridged now works on the button every time...which came as a real surprise.....especially as I'd already bought a new one. But I can hardly complain about having a spare.I really thought this might give me some angst, but so far so good; fingers crossed it runs properly on the roadMany thanks to all for the advice...............Mick.