Reclaiming rotary engine components.

spondonash
moderator
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:29 pm

Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by spondonash » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:56 pm

Well as it says has anyone looked into reclaiming rotary engine components, replate housings, metal spray end plates etc. With engine parts becoming incredibly rare there must be something we can do to extend the lives of these engines ?

User avatar
kanonkopdrinker
Site Admin
Posts: 409
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:59 pm
Location: Essex, UK

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by kanonkopdrinker » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:15 pm

I suggest you speak to club member Clemens Bubner in Germany .... he well may be able to provide you with some useful information.

David

johnbirchjar
moderator
Posts: 1116
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:20 pm

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by johnbirchjar » Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:17 am

The latest "Gossip" seems to indicate that one of our biggest problems is with Engine Bearings,Seals and Tips,J.B.

spondonash
moderator
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:29 pm

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by spondonash » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:18 am

kanonkopdrinker wrote:I suggest you speak to club member Clemens Bubner in Germany .... he well may be able to provide you with some useful information.

David
I know Clemens well but haven't been able to get in touch for some time. If anyone has a different email it would be appreciated. Thanks.

spondonash
moderator
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:29 pm

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by spondonash » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:20 am

johnbirchjar wrote:The latest "Gossip" seems to indicate that one of our biggest problems is with Engine Bearings,Seals and Tips,J.B.
My understand is all rotor seals are available, same with bearings ? The big problem seems to be the major engine components.

johnbirchjar
moderator
Posts: 1116
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:20 pm

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by johnbirchjar » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:47 pm

The quality and accuracy of the bearings leave a lot to be desired(eg, knackered within 100 miles evil) as I have experienced J.B.

spondonash
moderator
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:29 pm

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by spondonash » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:06 pm

johnbirchjar wrote:The quality and accuracy of the bearings leave a lot to be desired(eg, knackered within 100 miles evil) as I have experienced J.B.
Which bearings are we talking about here, rotor bearings ?

johnbirchjar
moderator
Posts: 1116
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:20 pm

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by johnbirchjar » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:24 am

Yep,J.B.

tim harrison
moderator
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:50 pm

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by tim harrison » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:29 pm

The rotor bearings are slightly different, one is hard to source and the other may become so. If JB used a secondhand one that may have been the problem but that may be the only source at present and they will need to be carefully checked. These bearings seem to generally have a long life. It would be worth putting our heads together to see if we can track down a source. Tim

johnbirchjar
moderator
Posts: 1116
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:20 pm

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by johnbirchjar » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:41 am

Nope,brand new from A/N(who don't stock them anymore anyway, evil)
It would appear that I myself am in the minority of Rotary(and any other Classic British bike smiley )owners who has not had a "working life" connected to the engineering industry in one form or another,so surely someone must know of a bearing manufacturer(supplier?)where said bearings can be sourced?after all,a number rotary powered "machines" of one form or another are currently in use and they must get their bearings from somewhere exclaim.
A prime example of "It aint what you know but who"(or is that whom? wink)J.B.

Charles Wilson
moderator
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:44 pm

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by Charles Wilson » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:22 pm

johnbirchjar wrote:A prime example of "It aint what you know but who"(or is that whom? wink)J.B.
1. "He" => "Who"
"Him" => "Whom"

"I know *him*..." Therefore "Whom". I thimk.

2. My SAE Paper on our favorite Norton engine is in a box at the archaeological dig, level 3 but:
It stated somewhere that only bearings with "...low lateral creep" were usable. Now, this engine has faced the rigors of tubocharging and come through just fine. Yet, if the Rotor Bearings aren't just so, you may find yourself looking at some kinetic modern art.

Yes, it's a Bearing Knowledge question. I ran across this a number of times with my RE-5: From Mikuni-manufactured-from-Solex-Design carb diaphragms to the starters that spun (Spinned?) themselves into oblivion (An especially sad story.) We are trying to access 30 year old technology for a part that may have been improved several times and is sitting on a parts shelf waiting to be picked up by a Parts Man who would say, "Oh, yeah. Got it right here..."

3. Mebbe we could get an "Updated Parts List" for our Roller Bearing Buddies?

johnbirchjar
moderator
Posts: 1116
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:20 pm

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by johnbirchjar » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:44 am

Thank you for the grammar lesson.
I would imagine the spec for a modern rotory engine has improved somewhat over the past 30 odd years,(especially for the aero industry,)so like I said,they must get their bearings,tips and seals from somewhere exclaim,perhaps a start would be the company up in Lichfield?that some of us from the club visited, smiley they were doing all sorts of experiments with rotories for light aircraft and static application (they were even experimenting with one for a kit car cool),J.B.

Ageing Rotarian
moderator
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:43 pm

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by Ageing Rotarian » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:04 am

Gents, I know we are probably a small group (I don't know exactly how many members) but maybe we should take a more proactive approach and form a rotary owners club tooling committee to address the issue. I am a member of the stag owners club ( I know they have a far bigger membership) and their committee has been instrumental in the reproduction of numerous parts which were obsolete but also the introduction of reengineered parts which have improved the performance. I'm sure the likes of Graham would have done a lot of work around sourcing new/reworked components and a chat with him would shed light on what is available and what isn't. Things also change with regards to technology, so what wasn't possible a few years ago may now be possible by advances in metal spraying/3D printing or advanced manufacturing techniques. I would be interested in helping with such a committee, it's a big task, which will take some funding but who knows what is possible. All the best, Roy

wust588
moderator
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:56 pm

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by wust588 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:56 pm

As far as Rotor bearings go, the only info I have is that they were originally made by Torrington.

One is 26-569B - T27C,- size -M9 - M11 Norton no 55-0167 (small needle size bearing)

Other is 26-569B - size -M1 - M3 - Norton no 55-0168 (large needle size bearing).

Best of luck finding some.

John.

User avatar
kanonkopdrinker
Site Admin
Posts: 409
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:59 pm
Location: Essex, UK

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by kanonkopdrinker » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:23 pm

Happy 2028 to all ROC members!

I have just been sent a photo of the first of the refinished rotor housings .... and very good they look too.

There will be more details in the next club magazine.

David

spondonash
moderator
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:29 pm

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by spondonash » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:27 pm

kanonkopdrinker wrote:Happy 2028 to all ROC members!

I have just been sent a photo of the first of the refinished rotor housings .... and very good they look too.

There will be more details in the next club magazine.

David
Is It a rotary powered time machine you are using David ? wink

Do you mean related as I have a brand new one that was never plated. I heard of some being done in Germany but the cost was ridiculous.

spondonash
moderator
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:29 pm

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by spondonash » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:32 pm

Ageing Rotarian wrote:Gents, I know we are probably a small group (I don't know exactly how many members) but maybe we should take a more proactive approach and form a rotary owners club tooling committee to address the issue. I am a member of the stag owners club ( I know they have a far bigger membership) and their committee has been instrumental in the reproduction of numerous parts which were obsolete but also the introduction of reengineered parts which have improved the performance. I'm sure the likes of Graham would have done a lot of work around sourcing new/reworked components and a chat with him would shed light on what is available and what isn't. Things also change with regards to technology, so what wasn't possible a few years ago may now be possible by advances in metal spraying/3D printing or advanced manufacturing techniques. I would be interested in helping with such a committee, it's a big task, which will take some funding but who knows what is possible. All the best, Roy
Roy, I agree wholeheartedly with this. There is no reason we shouldn't be able to start getting people/engineers on-board. I will certainly be willing to assist. Would it be worth putting something on the FB group as it seems a lot busier that this forum ?

User avatar
kanonkopdrinker
Site Admin
Posts: 409
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:59 pm
Location: Essex, UK

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by kanonkopdrinker » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:07 pm

The two housings appear to be a water-cooled one from a Commander - and an air-cooled from an IP2 / Classic.

W2000 (KC27) expected in the new year.

David

spondonash
moderator
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:29 pm

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by spondonash » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:54 pm

kanonkopdrinker wrote:The two housings appear to be a water-cooled one from a Commander - and an air-cooled from an IP2 / Classic.

W2000 (KC27) expected in the new year.

David
So any idea of approximate costs ?

johnbirchjar
moderator
Posts: 1116
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:20 pm

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by johnbirchjar » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:19 am

What's the "FB" group,J.B.

spondonash
moderator
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:29 pm

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by spondonash » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:59 am

johnbirchjar wrote:What's the "FB" group,J.B.
The Facebook group, Norton Rotary Enthusiasts.

johnbirchjar
moderator
Posts: 1116
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:20 pm

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by johnbirchjar » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:24 am

That would explain it.I don't do Facebook, (seems a bit odd to me why they use Facebook instead of the club forum)J.B.

spondonash
moderator
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:29 pm

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by spondonash » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:52 pm

johnbirchjar wrote:That would explain it.I don't do Facebook, (seems a bit odd to me why they use Facebook instead of the club forum)J.B.
It's because responses can be instant, most people are on Facebook so it gets a huge audience.

User avatar
kanonkopdrinker
Site Admin
Posts: 409
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:59 pm
Location: Essex, UK

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by kanonkopdrinker » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:33 pm

Hi all,

I don’t do Facebook either, but as far as I am aware, the one big advantage is that posts cannot be ‘moderated’ and subscribers are free to write what they like.

However, the ROC site has never (AFAIK) had to be moderated due to inappropriate comments.

Margaret does however do Facebook (and so I sometimes get to see Norton Rotary stuff) .... and she has just been informed that one of her ‘friends’ has just had a Diet Coke, while another has completed a jigsaw. Can life get any more exciting?

David

Ageing Rotarian
moderator
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:43 pm

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by Ageing Rotarian » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:34 pm

Dear all, just had a look at the Facebook page with the wife's permission and there seems to be a lot of people building specials, restoring bikes etc so I would be amazed if there isn't a wealth of information regarding spares/remanufactured parts/alternatives.
I guess the first point of call would be a chat with Graham (which I have to do anyway as I need to arrange the return of my classic replica) and get his thoughts. I am sure he will have a list of critical spares which will be a starting point but the 'journey' would include making contact with Richard, Brian and Andover Norton to get an overall picture. Obviously I seem to be looking at this from the Norton perspective (for obvious reasons) but we must look at all makes to ensure they get equal consideration.
I should move into the 20th ( let alone the 21st century) and join Facebook as the group is full of good information so who knows maybe I will take the plunge.
If with a little effort, if something becomes available that wasn't before then all will not be in vain.
All the best
Roy

johnbirchjar
moderator
Posts: 1116
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:20 pm

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by johnbirchjar » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:02 am

I tried "Facebook" once,and entirely failed to see the point,(I think it must be me,'cos millions of people seem to be on it wink)J.B.

Dave
moderator
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:12 pm
Location: WILTS

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by Dave » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:52 am

Like JB, i would have thought a club forum is the best place to post any questions/answers regarding rotary's, ( or any other club/group site ), but then again, i am not a Facebook user, Dave

spondonash
moderator
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:29 pm

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by spondonash » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:07 am

The benefit of the FB groups is answers are often almost immediate whereas on these forums it can often take days or weeks to get responses. I find the same with forums for my other interests as well.

BlackIP2
moderator
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:32 am

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by BlackIP2 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:03 pm

I'm not a Facebook fan either, but out of interest I put the details into a well known search engine and found I was able to access the discussions. It asks you to login or register but eventually you can get into the pages themselves but cannot of course contribute.
Thought it might be useful for all us other non-FB users. By the way, just had some toast, the tea was a bit week though and now about to go and......

Here's the page I managed to get into:
https://en-gb.facebook.com/groups/55031 ... oup_header

fogrider
moderator
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:42 am

Re: Reclaiming rotary engine components.

Post by fogrider » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:16 pm

Followed that FB link, incredible what brilliant info and photo's there is. So, who are the people posting all that stuff ?, how many are club members ? couldn't some be patched through to Epitrochoid ? or do us digital dinosours give in and join farce-book ?
Roll on summer, the Sport is ready to go.........
Regards, Terry

Post Reply