comp 2 premix

[Steve Gee]

Those who use comp 2 should consider stocking up (if they can find it) as it's no longer being produced, I called in to Startright last week and Graham had none left, he rang Silkolene to find out if the replacement (intended for premix or injector) was suitable but was still waiting for an answer. Is anybody brave enough to be a guinea pig and try it out ? Motorsport supplies who I've used in the past have sold out, but I have managed to order some from Opie oils.

[Steve Gee]

Looks like Opie oils are out too, oil was delivered and they've sent the new universal comp 2, I'm not happy about using it so it's going back, no doubt it would be ok, but I don't want to be stuck with 16 litres of the stuff if it's not !

[kanonkopdrinker]

The ROC still has stock of Comp-2 ... (£25 - 4 lts); will check with our supplier and see what the SP is .....DC

[Assen]

Hi guys,Just ordered some Silkolene Comp2 Premix from the Dutch Silkolene-importer. He is sending it per post, so if youre desperate....He says Comp2 is continuing to being produced, but only the thinner version of the 2, the injectionversion not the premixversion. I'm wondering what would happen if we use the thinner injectionversion? Can't we just adjust the oilpump? Perhaps its not so simple..... Graham, Richard?The Dutch importer ;Hmvparts.NL €14,20 per literRegards Jannes

[gripper]

There are plenty of two stroke oil manufacturers out there. What makes Silkolene so special? Morris oils here in Shrewsbury make three different grades of synthetic oil. The cheapest, plus 2 at £24.47 for four litres, next, Super sport 2i £42.47 and lastly, Sport action 2 at £48.88 Bearing in mind (no pun intended) that Rotella is not specifically a two stroke oil and the alternative 40 weight oils don't seem to be anything special either, we could be a victim of "it must be good because it's expensive" when chip fat would probably do. I'll compare the specifications of Comp 2 with the Morris's and go for the nearest. It could be cheaper if the club was prepared to negotiate a deal.

[Richard Negus]

Dave, You're quite correct, there are plenty of cheap two-stroke oils out there - but given the cost and inconvenience of an engine overhaul, would you risk an engine failure ? I certainly wouldn't. There are also many other brands of expensive pre-mix synthetic oils which will almost certainly be as good as Silkolene and pose little risk. I would be happy to try any of them in my own bike, but would be very cautious about recommending any particular brand to others based on experience gained in uncontrolled test conditions.When Mid-West Engines tested Bardahl KGR as an alternate to Silkolene, a single rotor engine was run to a schedule on a prop test rig for 100 hours, stripping and measuring every ten hours. Then, to ensure miscibility, the oil tank was topped up with Silkolene, run down, then topped up again with Bardahl and the engine stripped and examined. All this to prove to the CAA that Bardahl was a suitable alternative to Silkolene. Horrendous cost, and KGR isn't even available in the UK. In discussion with a gentleman from the Morris's sales office in Stoke recently, he advised that they have a direct equivalent to Rotella DD available in 20 litre drums. The conversation started with a discussion about their HDX40 (or XHD40, brain fade) which is a simple monograde oil intended for normal diesel engines. This oil has been used by a rotary owner in Blyth for several years without any problems (I've seen the inside of both his Commander and Sport engines during conversions to Supreme and NRS) and it smells nicer than Rotella smoke. There is also a gentleman of this parish who says he uses an inexpensive multigrade oil (Comma) and regularly travels all over Europe on his Commander without any problems. Based on that, Commander regular users could fill with almost anything that says 'oil' on the tin.In my opinion, the main advantages of a synthetic two stroke oil are the almost complete lack of smoke / 'old banger' smell and the protection given to end plates when the engine isn't used for long periods.R.

[Interpol2471]

I have written to Silkolene so will communicate what reply I get soon. Hopefully it is an upbeat answer as I am really happy using the Comp 2 and would rather continue down the synthetic 2 stroke route.Mind you I have 10l here stocked up so that sould last a while yet.

[rotaryart]

Dont know of anyone using this in there bikes, but sell it to rx7 owners using premix. I stock the Royal Purple 2 stroke, both road and race. Is a double ester full synthetic oil. My only expirience is with the cars. The head of tech dept in Royal Purple has raced his 1st gen RX7 on it for 20 odd years.http://www.rotaryart.uk.com/acatalog/Fu ... cants.html

[Interpol2471]

Hi Gary do you know what weight the 2 stroke is as one of the reasons Comp 2 was used was is 40 weight for the pump. Other than that sounds promising and could be worth a try.Richard any thoughts?

[Richard Negus]

I suggest everyone should look at their web site ( http://www.royalpurple.com ) and come to their own conclusions. The section on endorsements is particularly illuminating ; a 10% improvement in fuel economy on a 5 litre boat engine just by changing to their synthetic oil. I wonder if a fully synthetic oil would make the same improvement in my car ?Except for RE5's, the way the lubricating oil is used differs between the Mazda and motorcycle engines. The Mazda is a plain bearing engine and needs a recirculating liquid oil system (sump, pump, filter....) for the eccentric shaft bearings and side faces, and a separate injected oil for the apex seals. I guess rotaryart's reference to RX7 premix does away with the oil tank and pump. What's the benefit, by the way ?The Norton and DKW-Hercules pass the oil through the inside of the rotors before it gets to the apex seals so the oil must be able to stand the internal temperature of the rotor without turning to lacquer or carbon. If it breaks down inside the rotors, then lubrication of the rotor bearings and side plates is compromised long before the apex seals show any signs of distress.The RE5 has a lubricating system as for the Mazda, including an easily-accessible screw-on filter canister.Before using any new oil oil in my own bike, I would do the 'smoke' test used at Norton. Put 5ml of Rotella 40 and 5ml of the new oil in separate pots on a hotplate and raise the temperature until one starts to give off smoke; note the temperature and continue to raise until both are smoking and note the temperature. Continue heating until both have dried up and see which has the least residue.If it smokes before Rotella and leaves more residue, don't bother testing it in a bike. 'Injector' oils, I'm told, have a dilutant to make them easier to pump; that evaporates at a lower temperature than the oil, which is why they were not approved by Norton, or Mid-West. Although technically, the Norton is an injector system, the tank and oil system are warmed which reduces the oil's viscosity.

[rotaryart]

I have sent a question to the Royal Purple Tech desk and will let you have their reply.He has raced RX7's for 20 odd years on Royal Purple, though as Richard has explained a Mazda is not the same as a Norton, their similarities stop at having rotors.Personally I like the OMP system on the Mazda and on my personal cars would not remove, but we do have customers that modify 450-600 bhp cars that insist the OMP s removed as it eliminates the risk of a OMP failure, as the oil is in the fuel. They use 2 stroke as it burns cleanly.If someone wants to bring/send me some Rotella I will do the burn test Richard suggests and publish the result. Rotella V Royal Purple.

[rotaryart]

A fully synthetic oil, double ester, will withstand much higher temps before braking down than a mineral or so called semi-sythetics or hydro cracked oils. fully synthetics should outperform any mineral based oil going through the heat or a rotary.

[Interpol2471]

Gary I can drop you in some Rotella

[rotaryart]

Thanks

[rotaryart]

Still talking with Royal Purple, has none or little know of rotary Nortons but so far he seems suprised that guys have been using Rotella."Shell Rotella is a four cycle / four stroke diesel engine rated oil.It can be used for the main lubrication of a rotary powered engine that uses an OMP or Oil Metering Pump oil injection system.We would recommend the RP 10W40 Since rotary engines require oil to be injected with the fuel, another alternative would be to mix an ashless two cycle (two stroke) oil directly into the fuel or set up a separate oil tank for the OMP rather than use the crank case oil. This is where the RP TCW III two cycle oil would be recommended.I detail this in an FAQ section on rotary engines."I'll

[Interpol2471]

Gary have they been able to tell you the weight of the 2 stroke yet?

[rotaryart]

Yes got this, this morning."Gary,The problem is that you are mixing two different classes of oils.Rotella is an SAE 40 Wt and is NOT (REPEAT NOT) a two cycle two stroke oil such as used in a premix or oil injection system.It is used in two stroke diesel engines but that is different as the oil is not injected into the combustion chamber.So for this type of oil – this would be:RP SAE 40 Wt or RP SAE 15W40 would be superior to a product such as Shell Rotella SAE 40 wt.Two stroke / two cycle engine oils for use in pre-mix or when oil injected into the combustion chamber are vastly different than an SAE 40 Wt oil.These would be used in two cycle marine and air cooled small engines such as outboard engines or weed edges, blowers, chain saws, etc.For this type of oil – this would be the RP TCWIII Two Cycle Oils."

[Interpol2471]

I think you may need to make it clear to them that some people use Silkolene Comp 2 pre mix oil so they can look at that and compare it with their own two stroke oil. They can then do a comparision of the properties of both oils ie. Comp2 is equivilent of 40w so they then must know their 2 strokes properties compared.Hope to see you Tuesday

[gripper]

Having just rebuilt my engine at considerable cost, I took the opportunity to convert to Silkolene comp 2 but if the supply is going to dry up, I would be reluctant to waste my money and new engine, testing some other oil. I'll go back to rotella.

[Richard Negus]

I asked an acquaintance at Austro Engine (was Mid-West Engines) about Comp2 Premix supplies. They were aware of the problem and have successfully completed a 50 hour test with Silkolene Pro2. This is a premix oil for racing engines - and even more expensive than Comp2. OK for them when their typical customer might use 2 litres in a year, but no help to us.

[rotaryart]

Received this shortly after last post."Gary,To replace the Silkolene Comp 2 – 2 cycle oil – this would be either the RP TCW III or the RP TCW III Racing oils. I’ve attached the TCW III version product data sheet. We do not publish data on the Racing Version."

[rotaryart]

As the forum does not allow attachments I have added them here as not all sheets are on the RP site.http://www.rotarycommunity.com/tm.aspx? ... page=1#863

[Interpol2471]

If Pro 2 has been tested and is good I would rather pay an extra few pound for oils than search in despair for engine plates.Pro 2 or Royal Purple we will have to see.

[jpsrob]

All this is goobledegook to me, I just use good old fashioned Ursatex of which I have supplied by Texaco in the F1 SportHaving said that my Silk runs on Comp2 premix but it never seems to get far so I think I am quite safe.

[Interpol2471]

I have just spoken to Silkolene and they have confirmed that Comp 2 Pre Mix is being phased out to the motorcycle market but it is being kept as a production oil in bulk due to some military uses. I was also told that if enough interest was shown by users that it may be considered an oil to be added to the classic range of oils and sold in 4 litre packs.If this is of interest please email rosemary.mellor@fuchs-oil.com with your thoughts as Silkolene could be persuaded to keep this oil on if the interest is shown.It is up to us now so please mail Rosemary as everyone doing so with add strength to the cause Silkolene also confirmed that they DO NOT sell a straight equivilent that could be used in Comp 2's place only 4 stroke oils like Chatsworth 40.

[Richard Negus]

please email rosemary.mellor@fuchs-oil.com with your thoughts .

DONE !

[jpsrob]

please email rosemary.mellor@fuchs-oil.com with your thoughtsDone as well

[commando-rotary]

me also

[Ian]

Also done.

[MrB]

And me.