New project.

[Nortonash]

Wayne has spurred me into action and I have decided to get my rotary project underway. Basically I have a Spondon F1 frame and a twin shock RCW swinging arm and subframe to match. My idea is to build a Duckhams replica. I have an original Duckhams fairing in very good nick, also a tank and seat which will need to be painted to match. I have wheels and forks and most ancilliaries. I have a couple of technical questions for those in the know. I am thinking of using a Commander based engine with twin plug housings and a race heavy duty (oversized) gearbox. Does anyone know if a Commander engine will fit in an F1 frame without too much mucking around ? I can't check myself as the 2 parts are not within reach at present. Also is there any problem with running an electric water pump in place of the mechanical one ?Thanks.

[David Brown]

Hi Ash,Sounds like a good project.There seem to be a lot of people building Rotary race replicas at the moment. How viable is it?I have often thought about building such a beast but wasn't sure there were enough spares around to keep them on the road. I thought everyone preferred the F1 motor rather over the Commander due to weak gearbox. How are you upgrading the gearbox? How much would one pay for the Spondon frame kit?Are you NRS/RCW builders, knowledge sharing to help prospective builders?Any ideas on the total expected outlay?I have always been very interested in such a project and am seeing what money I have in the bike fund to see what I can realistically afford. I am guessing this is one that the wife doesn't see the reciepts for.At this rate there will be more Norton Rotary race replica specials on the road than original JPS or Crighton Nortons. Wow!, just imagine Mad Sunday on the Isle of Man with 10-20 F1/Sport and JPS/Crighton Rotary Nortons all circulating together.Ahhhhh! Wake me up somebody.Just make sure your engine mounts can be converted to support a heavy V4 when Rotary spares dry up completely.Good luck.David

[Wayne]

Hi Prospective buildersyes we do share info and even let prts go, i let go a rcw fly wheel to help complet a bike, some of my nrs stuff came from a chap with a rcw. Any one who thinks it an easy task is mistaken i spend hours tracking down spairs. sovener spairs are the hardest to get hold of as most people who have these over value them.Dont think everyone will be pleasd to help, the guy with the owo1 boxes dose not want to sell them to norton owners, 9 times out of 10 you wont have the part number so parts departments dont want to knowbuilding a special now is 10 times harder than when most replicas were built, the parts are all over the place. ash got his parts and bike when the going was good and only a few people had them.Parts re manufacture, take the commander rcw gearbox, one off casting, gears larger than std one off again i gess at £5k to remake a new box, second hand spairs avalability nill.Do you have access to machining facilitys, i need to make new rotors for my disks to fit the pvm wheels, spacers ectIf you are determind, have the paitence and £ go for it, i was asking 3 years befor i discoverd a single race part.ASHa commander engine can be retro fitted in to an f1, the frame need modifying though suggest spondon, std gearbox on ebay for 40.00, use this to see how big a job it would be. Personaly thinking though, you coukd finish your nrs of quiker, i do this when back in the uk and you can take the p55 frame to spondon

[Nortonash]

Well I'm hoping it will be a good project, I tend to jump in feet first with these things.It is viable to build a race rep, it is getting less so because of the availability of parts but it is possible. I'm not sure I would be keen to start now if I had no parts though.The F1 motor is the preferred option but I have a moly'ed Commander RH plate and centre plate and a heavy duty gearbox plus the twin plug rotor housings that are far easier to fit on a Commander based engine. The gearbox was the weakness of the Commander engines and it amazes me that Norton didn't invest in a stronger more modern unit. I have a couple of the factory 'oversized' boxes which I hope to use. They are around 10% bigger than the standard box, the gears, shafts and the case are all bigger. I really don't know what Spondon would charge for a frame kit, 2 grand maybe ?We definitely share info and parts if possible, no point hanging on to parts that will never be used, far better to share them around.I wouldn't like to guess at overall outlay but it could be as cheap or as expensive as the builder wished to an extent. You could use common, cheap suspension or top of the line Ohlins for example.

Hi Ash,Sounds like a good project.There seem to be a lot of people building Rotary race replicas at the moment. How viable is it?I have often thought about building such a beast but wasn't sure there were enough spares around to keep them on the road. I thought everyone preferred the F1 motor rather over the Commander due to weak gearbox. How are you upgrading the gearbox? How much would one pay for the Spondon frame kit?Are you NRS/RCW builders, knowledge sharing to help prospective builders?Any ideas on the total expected outlay?I have always been very interested in such a project and am seeing what money I have in the bike fund to see what I can realistically afford. I am guessing this is one that the wife doesn't see the reciepts for.At this rate there will be more Norton Rotary race replica specials on the road than original JPS or Crighton Nortons. Wow!, just imagine Mad Sunday on the Isle of Man with 10-20 F1/Sport and JPS/Crighton Rotary Nortons all circulating together.Ahhhhh! Wake me up somebody.Just make sure your engine mounts can be converted to support a heavy V4 when Rotary spares dry up completely.Good luck.David

[Nortonash]

I have standard and oversize boxes and I seem to remember that it was just the front mounts that would need modifying so possibly no frame mods ? I will be trying to work on both bikes at the same time, not ideal but I've done it before.

ASHa commander engine can be retro fitted in to an f1, the frame need modifying though suggest spondon, std gearbox on ebay for 40.00, use this to see how big a job it would be. Personaly thinking though, you coukd finish your nrs of quiker, i do this when back in the uk and you can take the p55 frame to spondon

[Wayne]

Hi ashThe swinging arm spindle passes through the f1 gearbox on the p55 frame if you want I can still get to the mounting points on my f1 gearbox to tell you the widths. If you are going the road route I have a nrs nose cut for twin headlight ,I would do a deal for a race nose, reputedly same as the duckams apart for the air slitTalking of swinging arms do you have two nrs swinging arms or more, if you do will you sell one for my project. Spondon frame circa £6k new, there modification prices are reputed to be reasonable.Regards Wayne

[Nortonash]

Thanks Wayne. Unfortunately only the one swinging arm, that was donated to me many moons ago by a bloke who had it as a souvenir. He gave it to me on the proviso I would one day rebuild the NRS.I have a couple of nose cones so yes I may be keen on a swap.

[Wayne]

hi ashHad it confirmed today, commander in to p55 frame is a frame alteraton job, not new plates, hope this helps. Went to the museum to day no two tanks apear to the same desine even the tanks on the rcw and nrs tanks were differant on the same model bike.there's a few people had a nrs swinging arm go through there hands i canot see it being the same one? in the first instance i just want to offer one up to my frame.Regards Wayne

[Nortonash]

Thanks Wayne, I guess I will have to wait until I have the engine and box in the frame and see how it looks. The 2 engines are very close dimension wise so it shouldn't be too much involved in getting it to fit.My NRS swinging arm was given to me about 12 years ago I guess.

[Wayne]

Hi ashI am contenplating building the 89rcw twin shock rcw, similar to the project you mention. The subframe if its the rcw twinshock dose not fit the f1 frame, so my option was cut the swinging arm mount point pillars off and make the frame full rcw. There are things to concider first this possibly would make the f1 frame shorter than my rc588 frame. Spondon Had my rc frame and f1 frame, rcw swinging arm rcw swinging arm ect. His conclusion was it would would cost just as mutch as a new frame as alter the f1 frame. Last week Spondon showed me a swinging arm made from cut down there triple beam to double beam (F1 and rc/rcw race frames are made from a different double beam) it looked great but totaly wrong for a pre duchams frame. Infact both me and Stuart both agreed it looked abolutly totaly wrong.However if you are serious about the project it may be worth spondon making notes on my build, This will comence when they have finished the tank on my rc bike, hope fully this year. As i have Rcw 89 forks and brakes, rcw 89 bodywork, rcw 89 twin shock, Rcw engine, rcw 89 rads, part of the big gearbox, prototype f1 frame i have too mutch rcw stuff not to build one. I also have sprays wp mono shock and two development swinging arms so could switch between mono and single shock as the race team did. Its also worth noting the first picture of spray in the jps norton picture gallery - Spray, this picture is of the 89 twin shock ( look at the inside of his left boot) this picture differs from the one in Norton Rotarys by pirkins as the jps com picture of the twin shock is in full Jps livery and has 2 piece ap calipers, plus other deitails.

[Wayne]

Hi allMy dislexia strikes again on the last post and i opologise, if i could i would deleat the last post and redoo itRegards Wayne

[Interpol2471]

Hi Wayne I believe you are ok as the spelling and English experts are all busy on the other Norton forums Anyway hope you are well and not polishing all those nice bikes too much

[johnbirchjar]

Hi guys,re:gear boxes,there is a company in Peterborough,(Nova Racing Transmisions,01733-210082)who specialise in "one off" g/boxes,(the name was given to me by the guy that races the only rotary combination,he said the engine that he had in his comb/lot was the one from Hizzies TT winning "White Charger"who knows)anyway,they made the g/box for him,and when I contacted them about a six speed box for the Classic, they quoted me about two and a half grand,this was about two years ago,must be worth a phone call,ride safe,J.B.