Cast Iron Discs

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Mick Taylor
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Cast Iron Discs

Post by Mick Taylor » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:13 pm

t
Hi all, when I picked up my Classic on Wednesday I had to load it onto the trailer in light rain, I stopped a few miles down the road just to check the straps and the brake discs were already red rust. exclaim

Having put it in the garage and dried it off, I went to take it out today and the pads had bonded themselves to the now properly rusty discs and took a bit of freeing.

I'm sure I have seen photos of Classics with what looks like stainless discs; it would not surprise me if the first owner requested cast iron discs as he also had the bike supplied with a right hand gear change conversion, very neatly done, but now reverted back to the left side.

Are these discs unique to the Classic?.....and does anyone know if stainless versions are available?

Mick.

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Re: Cast Iron Discs

Post by johnbirchjar » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:46 am

As far as I know all Classics have Stainless discs as a standard fitting cool (perhaps IP2's did as well?)Weather they are still available?who knows,having said that, I seem to recall some time back, that a club member asked the same question and was told they were still avaliable,(some where in South London if memory serves)doubtless someone will answer on the forum, meanwhile,enjoy your Classic,they are a great bike Very Happy,ride safe,J.B.

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Re: Cast Iron Discs

Post by Mick Taylor » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:54 am

Hi John, thank you, that pretty much confirms what I thought.......the only Classic I have ever seen with rusty discs is mine exclaim

I think the place in South London you mention might be All Bike Engineering.......I could take a couple of good photos and email them to see if they could fit new stainless discs to the carriers, it's pretty much their stock in trade......provided these are not special or uniquely difficult.

There are two things that I have never seen the point of on a motorcycle and that is cast iron discs and powder coating (except on sacrificial parts like crash bars etc)......one will cover your bike in corrosive red dust and the other looks fine until it fades, dulls or just peels off.....at which point the horror of getting the rest of it off safely becomes apparent.

Mick.

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kanonkopdrinker
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Re: Cast Iron Discs

Post by kanonkopdrinker » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:59 am

Mick,

We’re both of a similar vintage .... you must remember the discussions which took place in the 1970’s about cast-iron v. stainless-steel as brake disc material?

I think I would rather put up with this rusting you describe rather than have a pretty bike whose brakes did not work in the wet.

DC

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Re: Cast Iron Discs

Post by Mick Taylor » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:10 am

But, given the right pads they do work in the wet, even bikes from the seventies.....and that's the whole point really, all modern bikes (I stand to be corrected) have stainless, low maintenance discs and stunning brakes.

I had a bit of a struggle to get the bike off the bench yesterday because the front wheel wouldn't turn, pads rusted to the disc in just two days and because the bench has a smooth surface the grip of the tyre was less than the grip of the rust; cast iron discs in modern usage terms are right up there with typewriters.

Does your Norton have iron discs?

Mick.

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Re: Cast Iron Discs

Post by kanonkopdrinker » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:57 am

Mick, my IP2 is now living in Austria .... I’m not sure what material the discs were.

The RE5’s are certainly stainless-steel; the W2000’s are cast-iron beneath the chrome plating (which I have had skimmed off).

DC

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Re: Cast Iron Discs

Post by Mick Taylor » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:18 pm

Chrome plated discs........that's another mystery, there must have been a good reason, it's not a cheap process.

I did wonder if the Classic discs are unique to that bike or if anything else might fit, but I suspect I'm one of an extremely tiny number to have the problem so I will have to find out myself I guess....


Mick.

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Re: Cast Iron Discs

Post by johnbirchjar » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:57 pm

There are quite a number of IP2(or derivatives of wink)in the club, so I am sure one of them will answer my question whether said bikes have Stainless Discs fitted as standard,J.B.

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Re: Cast Iron Discs

Post by Mick Taylor » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:03 pm

Thanks John, looking at the discs a little closer today, the cast rotor seems to be mounted on an alloy centre fastened by Allen bolts.

The actual disc part seems to be a simple circle with a number of threaded holes, no complicated shapes......in an ideal world I would buy discs and bolt them to my carriers, but it's probably not that simple....I will give Graham at Startright a call to ask what if anything he might have.

Mick.

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Re: Cast Iron Discs

Post by mick695 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:38 pm

I have the same problem with my Hinckley Trident, if I put it away with wet disks they tend to have locked up by the next time I get the bike out the garage...

I find a good well placed whack with a rubber mallet on the caliper frees them up no problem Very Happy

Cheers

Mick

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Re: Cast Iron Discs

Post by Mick Taylor » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:03 pm

A whack with a rubber mallet is the traditional cure.......but thinking about it, these are opposed piston, the caliper body is fixed in place, so whacking it won't do anything.......it might break something if I got a bit carried away though.

Stainless discs is definitely the way to go ......... if I can find some.......it must be a nightmare if you have iron discs on a bike that lives outside, the only upside is, it's a form of immobiliser. wink

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Richard Negus
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Re: Cast Iron Discs

Post by Richard Negus » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:06 pm

Mick,
In the world of Classic owners, there are lucky ones and unlucky ones.
The very first Classics produced had Brembo stainless discs with a cast aluminium centre.
Then Brembo discontinued that disc and offered the bolted cast iron one as a replacement. Snag was the offset was wrong so Norton made a nice anodised spacer between disc and carrier.
Predictably, Brembo then discontinued that cast iron disc.
Then Spondon came to the rescue and made a complete bolted-up stainless disc with anodised carrier and the correct offset. That is identifiable by round holes in the cast carrier.
EBC do very nice replacements for both front and rear F1 discs, so perhaps you might check their catalogue or ask a Moto Guzzi specialist what the options are.
Slower slower, no faster faster - the joys of old fogey mode to hooligan mode at the flick of a switch

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Re: Cast Iron Discs

Post by Mick Taylor » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:20 pm

Thank you for that, Richard.......it seems this was an 'unlucky' bike.......it definitely has the spacer ring you mention.

I will certainly look at EBC; failing that, because they look relatively uncomplicated, I will see what All Bike Engineering can do; I was hoping there might be a straightforward Norton stainless replacement disc to fit to my carriers, but it seems that is not the case.

I'll get there in the end......hopefully smiley

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Richard Negus
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Re: Cast Iron Discs

Post by Richard Negus » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:51 pm

Mick,
If you do find a replacement, please let me know; there's a Classic in my workshop, unused for ten years, with very rusty discs.
I was planning to use a Scotchbrite mop to get the worst off and hope a bit of heavy braking will make them look better.
As Classics weren't built in numerical sequence, but "he who shouts loudest gets the next one" order, it's impossible now to know when the changes occurred.
R.
Slower slower, no faster faster - the joys of old fogey mode to hooligan mode at the flick of a switch

Mick Taylor
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Re: Cast Iron Discs

Post by Mick Taylor » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:53 am

Will do, I'm going to try Allbike Engineering first, they are set up to make discs and claim they will make pretty much anything.

I guess when these parts were not made in-house, Norton were always at the mercy of their suppliers.

Mick.

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Interpol2471
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Re: Cast Iron Discs

Post by Interpol2471 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:30 pm

I spotted a pair of discs in my little shed the other day I will have a look
Various rubbish in various states of decay.....

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Re: Cast Iron Discs

Post by GeoffD » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:10 pm

I've got classic number 11 and it has got cast iron discs with anodised spacers. I know these were original fitment to this particular bike, as I have a photo of it when it was nearly new. I turn the wheels a bit every week or so over the winter and don't have a major problem with rusting.

Interesting note about the build order. Is there a record of when the bikes were actually built/despatched?

I'm sure that I'll enjoy riding it as soon as I can get the engine running smoothly.

Geoff.

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Re: Cast Iron Discs

Post by Mick Taylor » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:09 pm

As it happens I have an update on my cast iron disc problem; I picked up a set of three stainless rotors from Allbike Engineering in Greenwich late last week and got them all fitted today.

Before:
20180325_141320_resized (1280x720).jpg
There are 27 M6 screws holding the rotors to the alloy carriers, the head of the very last screw just fell off as soon as I put the slightest pressure on it, look carefully at the break and the damage through corrosion (I think) is obvious.....you never know what these things are hiding.
20180325_153010_resized (1280x720).jpg
Here it is with the new stainless rotors fitted......it may be that the problem with the pads sticking to the discs is worse than it needs to be on my bike as I am using sintered pads, but just getting it wet on the trailer on the trip home caused them to stick quite badly and I do recall getting a bit fed up with the amount of red oxide dust on the wheels when I owned it previously. The iron discs which were much rustier than anticipated where they meet the anodized spacer ring will be brushed off, greased and stored so it can always go back to original if need be. Bear in mind this is a bike with less than 5,000m on the clock from new that will have spent almost it's entire life in dry storage.

Here are the new front discs fitted, hopefully they will be a little more user friendly.
20180326_172057_resized (720x1280).jpg
As an aside to this conversation, I was at the National Motorcycle Museum last week, they have a very original looking Classic, still wearing it's Pirelli Phantom tyres (I wish they would re manufacture them).....I took a couple of photos from several feet away of the engine number which looked like LE032 (or maybe not) and that bike was fitted with the later production round hole Spondon stainless discs which looked very neat.

The stainless replacements are not as nicely manufactured and finished as the originals, but if they do the job I'll be happy.

Mick.
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Re: Cast Iron Discs

Post by mickm » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:59 am

Hi Mick
How much were the discs from ABE is LE 032.

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Re: Cast Iron Discs

Post by mickm » Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:05 pm

Hi Mick Sorry that last post should be
How much were the discs from ABE? as I may well have to get some for my Classic. Which is LE 032 Thanks Mick

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Re: Cast Iron Discs

Post by Mick Taylor » Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:58 pm

The discs were £100 each, but if I had bought four or more then they would have been £90 each.....I guess once they have the machine set up and programmed, the more they make, the more economical it becomes.

The number written on my job sheet was 2063......I believe (but don't hold me to it) that should allow them to remake the same thing again without having to create a program which they had to do for mine.

If that is the case it should also mean you might be able to order them without having to go there and leave a disc to copy as that has already been done.

Mick.

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Re: Cast Iron Discs

Post by johnbirchjar » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:32 pm

My Classic is LE029 and is fitted with the Spondon S/Steel discs(which I had a biker buddy drill holes in for me some years back,purely for aesthetic reasons cool) "You didn't tell me the discs were Stainless,"was his comment,"Broke about six drill bits exclaim"I professed ignorance and gave him an extra tenner,truthfully though I didn't know back then.J.B.

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